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peaceviddie
03-17-2010, 07:32 AM
A friend of mine has about 15 acres of land in a somewhat secluded area of Ontario (surrounded by cattle farms, bush, forest).

-In the municipality he lives in he can discharge weapons on his property (just as long as he is not annoying his neighbours); however, could he discharge restricted weapons on his property?
-If yes, could I discharge restricted weapons on his property?

Thanks,

tiriaq
03-17-2010, 07:52 AM
Absolutely!
As long as there is a CFO range approved for the discharge of restricted firearms.

ikedaboy
03-17-2010, 08:17 AM
Best thing to do is to call CFC and ask. If you are going to put in a range, there is a range guidline on the RCMP website.

Desette
03-17-2010, 08:40 AM
Why couldnt you discharge it on your own property if theres no bylaw aganist it, your ATT covers your own property and you shouldnt need a 'CFO approved range' I am saying this from a person pissed off at the politics of this situations not as a person who knows as well as the CFC so I would call them.

But what is with this BS and shooting a restricted on your own property needing an approved range, please tell us what you find.

bearkilr
03-17-2010, 08:51 AM
Try using the search function, this topic gets covered every week.

An ATT has nothing to do with "shooting". It's an "Authorization to Transport".

You can't fire a restricted firearm outside of an approved range.

http://canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=434423
http://canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=405579

Desette
03-17-2010, 08:55 AM
I figured and I shouldn't add to a thread that is problem a repeater but its just the largest pain in the ass to hear about the ATT problems and now I even realize that its illegal to shoot my own gun on my own property, whats so dangerous about a handgun compared to a rifle being shot on my property?

This makes no sense at all.

ajayofcanada
03-17-2010, 08:58 AM
Restricted's can only be shot at CFO approved gun ranges.

Desette
03-17-2010, 09:02 AM
Curious but what law do you violate by firiing on your property then because last time I checked there was no 'discharging a restricted firearm not at an approved range' in the criminal code

tiriaq
03-17-2010, 09:22 AM
As far as taking your restricted to buddy's property to shoot it, an ATT would be necessary. Read your ATT. Would this be covered?
There is a legal definition of what a residence is, and the acreage where the residence is located is not it. An ATT is required to remove the restricted from the residence.
It might be possible to shoot the firearm from within the residence.
A couple of months ago, laddie was in this area shooting his pistol in a cottage country situation. Someone heard shots, dropped a dime on him. Police attended, laddie was charged. No ATT.
Folks are free to do as they choose. And that includes the freedom to deal with any consequences.

awndray
03-17-2010, 09:22 AM
Call your CFO. It's different for some areas. Some municipalities have bylaws that specify where you can and cannot discharge given classifications of firearms.

Claybuster
03-17-2010, 10:11 AM
A couple of months ago, laddie was in this area shooting his pistol in a cottage country situation. Someone heard shots, dropped a dime on him. Police attended, laddie was charged. No ATT.
And on a 15 acre plot in Southern Ontario unless it is in one of the very few remote areas it won't be surprising if exactly the same happens if shooting restricted off a licenced range.

deets
04-04-2010, 01:18 PM
Folks are free to do as they choose. And that includes the freedom to deal with any consequences.

Yours and my definition of freedom seems to differ quite a bit ;)

hampster123
04-06-2010, 11:02 AM
Kind of a grey area there mabey.

My understaning was your not suppose to discharge a restricted firearm outside a range.

I don't understand why you could discharge a rifle outside an approved range and not a handgun, I don't make the rules.

Mind you if the neighbours don't mind who is going to find out

Styrak
04-07-2010, 03:05 AM
I figured and I shouldn't add to a thread that is problem a repeater but its just the largest pain in the ass to hear about the ATT problems and now I even realize that its illegal to shoot my own gun on my own property, whats so dangerous about a handgun compared to a rifle being shot on my property?

This makes no sense at all.

Welcome to Canadian firearms laws! Where logic plays no part whatsoever!

:rolleyes:

Until the Angels Fall
04-07-2010, 03:36 AM
We all wish we could do that but because guns are evil and handguns are SUPER evil we cannot sadly

tula
04-07-2010, 08:23 AM
it sucks all round, my youngest brother was shooting his 11mm mauser in the backyard of our farm one day, when an RCMP officer showed up because of a complaint from a neighbour a ways up the road (and on the other side) who shoots in his front yard desided he had the right too and my brother didnt, well the officer was confronted by my father who raised a fuss we had been shooting on our 100 acres with permission of the ajoining neighbours all farmers with 100rds of acres of land between us for years and they all did the same in thier back yards, well the officer started to kick up a fuss and got cut short when the old man asked him...see that garden over there? if there was a racoon digging that up right now and you owned it what would you do, the officer said he'd shoot it, and dad proceeded to ask him to leave lol the officer had nothing farther to say after that little slip up and droped the matter, I heard later that his CO ripped a strip off him for being so loose lipped.....long as the neighbours dont mind shootaway (a pistol though) im not sure what you can do with that our laws are a royle mess.

TrevorW
04-07-2010, 09:02 AM
A friend of mine has about 15 acres of land in a somewhat secluded area of Ontario (surrounded by cattle farms, bush, forest).

-In the municipality he lives in he can discharge weapons on his property (just as long as he is not annoying his neighbours); however, could he discharge restricted weapons on his property?
-If yes, could I discharge restricted weapons on his property?

Thanks,

I hope you have your ATT to take your restricted there haha!
If you own a restricted you should know the laws its beaten into our heads.
I smell something funny.

bearkilr
04-07-2010, 09:13 AM
As far as taking your restricted to buddy's property to shoot it, an ATT would be necessary. Read your ATT. Would this be covered?
There is a legal definition of what a residence is, and the acreage where the residence is located is not it. An ATT is required to remove the restricted from the residence.
It might be possible to shoot the firearm from within the residence.
A couple of months ago, laddie was in this area shooting his pistol in a cottage country situation. Someone heard shots, dropped a dime on him. Police attended, laddie was charged. No ATT.
Folks are free to do as they choose. And that includes the freedom to deal with any consequences.

Possible? yes..........legal? not even close to being legal. (loaded gun in house :) )

tiriaq
04-07-2010, 09:18 AM
Possible? yes..........legal? not even close to being legal. (loaded gun in house :) )

It is not legal to load a firearm anywhere it cannot be legally discharged.
Which law refers to "loaded gun in house"?

sunray
04-07-2010, 09:47 AM
"...in the criminal code..." Isn't a CCofC thing. It's a FA thing. Your ATT likely has some wording like 'To an approved range only.' Your back yard, no matter how big it may be, isn't an approved range.
"...about 15 acres..." Isn't as big as it sounds.
"...municipalities have bylaws..." Discharge of firearms and sometimes the max calibre of a rifle only. Nothing about what firearm can be shot.

RojamB21
04-07-2010, 09:58 AM
A friend of mine has about 15 acres of land in a somewhat secluded area of Ontario (surrounded by cattle farms, bush, forest).

-In the municipality he lives in he can discharge weapons on his property (just as long as he is not annoying his neighbours); however, could he discharge restricted weapons on his property?
-If yes, could I discharge restricted weapons on his property?

Thanks,

If you're NUTZ ONLY and a father -in -law with a ton of money and really a good lawyer and a nicer police officer and at the end stupid crown attoreny

bearkilr
04-07-2010, 05:08 PM
It is not legal to load a firearm anywhere it cannot be legally discharged.
Which law refers to "loaded gun in house"?

:confused:
Answered your own question there,no?

Your statement in the previous post said:

It might be possible to shoot the firearm from within the residence

You're saying it's legal to discharge a firearm in your house? Think again.

Gatehouse
04-07-2010, 05:20 PM
:confused:
Answered your own question there,no?

Your statement in the previous post said:

It might be possible to shoot the firearm from within the residence

You're saying it's legal to discharge a firearm in your house? Think again.


If there is no municipal by-laws preventing shooting...

What law makes discharging a firearm inside your house illegal? What law makes it illegal to load a gun inside your house?

bearkilr
04-07-2010, 05:56 PM
If there is no municipal by-laws preventing shooting...

What law makes discharging a firearm inside your house illegal? What law makes it illegal to load a gun inside your house?

Aside from a "self defense" scenario, all provinces have laws prohibiting the discharge of firearms where it is unsafe to do so. That's a pretty ambiguous law, as many are.
If you think you can convince a judge that it is safe to fire a handgun in your house, have at 'er.

BTW, this thread should be in legalese, with the other gazillion "shooting restricteds on my property" threads.

tiriaq
04-07-2010, 06:53 PM
Aside from a "self defense" scenario, all provinces have laws prohibiting the discharge of firearms where it is unsafe to do so. That's a pretty ambiguous law, as many are.
If you think you can convince a judge that it is safe to fire a handgun in your house, have at 'er.

BTW, this thread should be in legalese, with the other gazillion "shooting restricteds on my property" threads.

I see you are in Manitoba. Please quote the Manitoba law to which you are referring.

Incidentally, in the quotes you included in your posts, the phrase was "from within". "From within", not "inside".

bearkilr
04-07-2010, 07:09 PM
I see you are in Manitoba. Please quote the Manitoba law to which you are referring.

Incidentally, in the quotes you included in your posts, the phrase was "from within". "From within", not "inside".

Criminal Code of Canada:



Careless use of firearm, etc.

86. (1) Every person commits an offence who, without lawful excuse, uses, carries, handles, ships, transports or stores a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any ammunition or prohibited ammunition in a careless manner or without reasonable precautions for the safety of other persons


You can bet that you'd get charged with firing a handgun from within,inside/wherever other than at an approved range.

The only legal place to discharge a restricted firearm without an ATC is at an approved range. Why is that so hard to comprehend?
I'm not saying I agree with it, but that is the law. If you'd like to challenge it, go right ahead. The gov't has deep pockets.

tiriaq
04-07-2010, 07:14 PM
\

Criminal Code of Canada:



Careless use of firearm, etc.

86. (1) Every person commits an offence who, without lawful excuse, uses, carries, handles, ships, transports or stores a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any ammunition or prohibited ammunition in a careless manner or without reasonable precautions for the safety of other persons

Sure. But that is not what the discussion is about, is it?
The section of the CC that you quoted could be applied to any unsafe or careless action, anywhere.
You are making assumptions about safety without any basis for doing so.
Incidentally, you did refer to provincial laws.

bearkilr
04-07-2010, 07:17 PM
Sure. But that is not what the discussion is about, is it?
The section of the CC that you quoted could be applied to any unsafe or careless action, anywhere.
You are making assumptions about safety without any basis for doing so.
Incidentally, you did refer to provincial laws.

Do you really think a crown prosecutor is going to only look under the Firearms Act for an appropriate charge?

A Federal law would apply to all provinces, would it not?

303 Brit
04-07-2010, 07:35 PM
The short answer is on the FAQ page from the CFC
Q. What do I need to do if I want to set up a place on my property for target shooting?
Check with your municipality to see if firearms can lawfully be discharged in your area. Also check with the Chief Firearms Officer (CFO) of your province or territory to find out if the place where you will be target shooting needs to be approved under the Shooting Clubs and Shooting Ranges Regulations.Even if your range does not need approval, you may wish to consult with your CFO for advice on how to make your range safe to ensure that projectiles do not stray onto neighbouring property and that there are adequate warning systems in place to warn people they are entering an area where shooting activities are taking place.

So depending on where in Bantario this property is, then maybe. But chances are he would have to get it approved as a range and/or you would have to have an ATT for his address.

303

bearkilr
04-07-2010, 07:43 PM
I'll make it easy for everyone. The search function works and we're using up valuable server space which should be reserved for the EE. :)

SEE HERE: http://canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129060&highlight=shooting+restricted+property

303 Brit
04-07-2010, 07:56 PM
I'll make it easy for everyone. The search function works and we're using up valuable server space which should be reserved for the EE. :)

SEE HERE: http://canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129060&highlight=shooting+restricted+property

This is not an answer this is a link to 29 pages of assumptions and hearsay.

303

bearkilr
04-07-2010, 08:35 PM
This is not an answer this is a link to 29 pages of assumptions and hearsay.

303

Then perhaps someone has an answer other than telling those new to the sport to fire away with their handguns out of the porch door?

Right now, this is the answer,unless you care to challenge the current laws. Let me know how that works out.

JB
04-07-2010, 09:04 PM
A friend of mine has about 15 acres of land in a somewhat secluded area of Ontario (surrounded by cattle farms, bush, forest).

-In the municipality he lives in he can discharge weapons on his property (just as long as he is not annoying his neighbours); however, could he discharge restricted weapons on his property?
-If yes, could I discharge restricted weapons on his property?

Thanks,

f:P: im starting to see why wendy is kicking our butt's

303 Brit
04-08-2010, 12:51 AM
Then perhaps someone has an answer other than telling those new to the sport to fire away with their handguns out of the porch door?

Right now, this is the answer,unless you care to challenge the current laws. Let me know how that works out.

I refer back to post # 29 where the FAQ from the CFC website states to contact your CFO. And the CFO will give you further direction as to whether or not that area requires him to have his "range" approved.

This is what I would have someone that is new to the sport do. As it has been 5 plus years since I lived in Ont and the OP didn't give a county or region. So I would not give a definite answer, yet point them in the direction of the person who can.

303

ThrowBack
04-08-2010, 01:35 AM
I don't know why this comes up every week.:confused: Keep it simple: Get a range membership and shoot your restricteds there. Attempting to figure the wording of the law to favour discharging restricteds/prohibiteds anywhere but a range will get you nothing but trouble with the police. You can argue it on here all you want, but try it and see how far your arguements take you in front of some anti-gun Liberal appointed judge and some equally anti-gun prosecutor out to make a career. Is it worth losing your firearms and gaining a criminal record over? I wouldn't think so. I know lots of farmers do it and get away with it, but it's only a matter of time before someone gets caught.
I know it sucks ass, but until we see some major regime changes and a swing in the general consensus of the population, we're stuck with it.
I envy the people in places like Montana where you can shoot gophers, play out in the bush in general, camp and always keep your handgun handy.

ehntr
04-08-2010, 08:32 PM
I have four sections (2560 acres) of land in southern AB. All fenced and posted. My house is square in the middle. I live alone. Food plot is planted 50 yards away and is viewable from the balcony off my second story bedroom. Nearest occupied dwelling is 10 miles away. When I wake up most mornings, I'm greeted with the splendor of mule deer feeding at the garden plot. I have a walk-in safe for my firearms in the bedroom. Question? After removing the sleep from my eyes and opening the balcony doors, can I shoot them using my AR-10? Season is open, sun is up and I have tags...

Veronica 204-555-5555

bearkilr
04-08-2010, 09:36 PM
I have four sections (2560 acres) of land in southern AB. All fenced and posted. My house is square in the middle. I live alone. Food plot is planted 50 yards away and is viewable from the balcony off my second story bedroom. Nearest occupied dwelling is 10 miles away. When I wake up most mornings, I'm greeted with the splendor of mule deer feeding at the garden plot. I have a walk-in safe for my firearms in the bedroom. Question? After removing the sleep from my eyes and opening the balcony doors, can I shoot them using my AR-10? Season is open, sun is up and I have tags...

Veronica 204-555-5555

Of course you can, just don't get caught. I'd suggest keeping a bolt action 308 using the same ammo real handy. :)

Sargon
04-08-2010, 09:52 PM
Its amazing how one has to have EVERY angle figured out simply to own and shoot a firearm. That's oppression in itself but one we put up with because we must, but still....absolutely ridiculous nevertheless. I wouldn't give up my right for the world, however.

Styrak
04-08-2010, 10:18 PM
I have four sections (2560 acres) of land in southern AB. All fenced and posted. My house is square in the middle. I live alone. Food plot is planted 50 yards away and is viewable from the balcony off my second story bedroom. Nearest occupied dwelling is 10 miles away. When I wake up most mornings, I'm greeted with the splendor of mule deer feeding at the garden plot. I have a walk-in safe for my firearms in the bedroom. Question? After removing the sleep from my eyes and opening the balcony doors, can I shoot them using my AR-10? Season is open, sun is up and I have tags...

Veronica 204-555-5555

Like was said. Sure you can. Nothing is illegal until you're caught doing it :p

Not saying you SHOULD, but that's your own choice if you want to do so.

evolture
04-08-2010, 10:31 PM
The first reply was the correct one.

Garlond
04-08-2010, 11:15 PM
I find it very interesting that no one can come up with the law that states that you are not allowed to discharge a restricted on private property. The idea of setting up a range is always interesting and just saying get a membership is also valid...but these have nothing to do with the question. I have no doubt that it is somewhere as we all understand it to be gospel...but where the hell is it?

Where does it state that a restricted cannot be discharged anywhere other than a range?

evolture
04-09-2010, 08:32 AM
Section 95(1) criminal code:
:Possession of prohibited or restricted firearm with ammunition

95. (1) Subject to subsection (3), every person commits an offence who, in any place, possesses a loaded prohibited firearm or restricted firearm, or an unloaded prohibited firearm or restricted firearm together with readily accessible ammunition that is capable of being discharged in the firearm, unless the person is the holder of
(a) an authorization or a licence under which the person may possess the firearm in that place; and
(b) the registration certificate for the firearm.
Punishment

(2) Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1)

(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of
(i) in the case of a first offence, three years, and

(ii) in the case of a second or subsequent offence, five years; or

(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year."

And the firearm act:
Places where prohibited and restricted firearms may be possessed

17. Subject to sections 19 and 20, a prohibited firearm or restricted firearm, the holder of the registration certificate for which is an individual, may be possessed only at the dwelling-house of the individual, as recorded in the Canadian Firearms Registry, or at a place authorized by a chief firearms officer.
1995, c. 39, s. 17; 2003, c. 8, s. 15.

AND FINALLY your backyard is not your dwelling. You need permission from the CFO to possess it in your backyard before you can discharge there.

tiriaq
04-09-2010, 08:43 AM
....AND FINALLY your backyard is not your dwelling. You need permission from the CFO to possess it in your backyard before you can discharge there.

Your dwelling is the structure including curtilage.

bearkilr
04-09-2010, 09:18 AM
Your dwelling is the structure including curtilage.

On my ATT it states:
"Firearms may only be loaded and/or carried on your person while you are actively engaged in target practice or a target shooting competition."

This basically says I can't load and/or carry the gun at any other place than at an approved range. What this also tells me is that I can't walk around my house with an empty holstered gun, to break in a holster for example or practice drawing from a new holster. I know this to be BS. It seems the CFO's make up their own rules depending which province one lives in.
What a convoluted mess...................

The fact of the matter remains that it will come down to a court visit, should one get caught firing from within your dwelling.

rig_pig69
04-09-2010, 01:19 PM
f:P: im starting to see why wendy is kicking our butt's

Why??

It might come as a shock to some of you, but people have been shooting restricteds on private property, without the proper permits, on a regular basis for years and have never had any problems.

For me it's right up there with speeding. Yes, you shouldn't do it, and yes you might get caught, and if you get caught you might get in trouble. If you can handle the trouble, and feel it's worth it do what you please. There's no way they could arrest everybody if we all did it....:runaway:

FMP
04-09-2010, 02:49 PM
Common response to these weekly threads are usually

1) Yes, at an approved range
2) sure shoot your restricted guns anywhere... just dont get caught
3) no

Next question, does anyone here have any valid information about having sections of their property deemed " ok " to be approved range? Has anyone gone through the process of having an approved range? That's what I wanna know, getting tired of hearing " you could have the CFO inspect it blah blah "

rig_pig69
04-09-2010, 03:00 PM
Common response to these weekly threads are usually

1) Yes, at an approved range
2) sure shoot your restricted guns anywhere... just dont get caught
3) no

Next question, does anyone here have any valid information about having sections of their property deemed " ok " to be approved range? Has anyone gone through the process of having an approved range? That's what I wanna know, getting tired of hearing " you could have the CFO inspect it blah blah "

I imagine your insurance would be quite high.

Shelldrake
04-12-2010, 02:44 PM
Next question, does anyone here have any valid information about having sections of their property deemed " ok " to be approved range? Has anyone gone through the process of having an approved range? That's what I wanna know, getting tired of hearing " you could have the CFO inspect it blah blah "

Well, here are the guidelines for ranges in Canada where the Feds are the delegated authority,, some provinces like Ontario would have their own. I would assume their standards would all be pretty close.
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/information/club/const_guide/RangeDesign/RDCG/RangeDesignConstructionGuidelines.pdf

two-dogs
05-06-2010, 08:51 PM
Why??

It might come as a shock to some of you, but people have been shooting restricteds on private property, without the proper permits, on a regular basis for years and have never had any problems.

For me it's right up there with speeding. Yes, you shouldn't do it, and yes you might get caught, and if you get caught you might get in trouble. If you can handle the trouble, and feel it's worth it do what you please. There's no way they could arrest everybody if we all did it....:runaway:

Cool...... I like what you said........ tell it like it is....... :rockOn:

SurvivorRye
05-10-2010, 01:32 PM
I figured and I shouldn't add to a thread that is problem a repeater but its just the largest pain in the ass to hear about the ATT problems and now I even realize that its illegal to shoot my own gun on my own property, whats so dangerous about a handgun compared to a rifle being shot on my property?

This makes no sense at all.

Welcome to Canada.






... Btw, if you own non-restricteds but are shooting your restricted, the authorities need proof you were shooting your restricteds. So if no one sees you, it's not illegal. (not really, but you know what I mean)