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Ready, Aim...
04-21-2011, 10:50 PM
Hey I'm wanting to go shooting tomorrow, and I would like to take some of my buddies guns with me. He has given me permission, and I have a PAL, but we were wondering if lending was allowed?
Thanks

lucky72
04-21-2011, 11:08 PM
Loaning or Borrowing a Firearm
Loaning or Borrowing a Firearm Firearms Act section [FA s.] 33: A person may lend a firearm only if (a) the person (i) has reasonable grounds to believe that the borrower holds a licence authorizing the borrower to possess that kind of firearm, and (ii) lends the borrower the registration certificate for the firearm... Therefore, you may lend a firearm to a person with a POL, because he "holds a licence authorizing the borrower to possess that kind of firearm." You do not need to do a formal transfer of the firearm, because FA s. 21 says that "For the purposes of sections 22 to 32 (the transfer procedure sections), 'transfer' means sell, barter or give." Criminal Code section [CC s.] 84(4)(b)(ii): "84(4) For the purposes of this Part, a person is the holder of... (b) a registration certificate for a firearm if... the person possesses the registration certificate with the permission of its lawful holder." Therefore, the borrower is the "holder" of both a licence to possess that kind of firearm and a registration certificate for that particular firearm, so he is in fully legal possession of it. You cannot legally lend someone a firearm unless you also lend him the registration certificate, so you cannot lend a firearm that you legally own under the provisions of CC s. 98 unless you have a registration certificate for it to loan with it. FA s. 59: "An individual who holds an authorization to carry or an authorization to transport need not be the person to whom the registration certificate for the particular prohibited firearm or restricted firearm was issued." Therefore, a borrower can get an authorization to carry or an authorization to transport a borrowed firearm. Often, he will not need an authorization to transport a borrowed handgun, because his existing ATT will cover it by language like, "all restricted firearms and prohibited handguns for which he holds registration certificates" [see CC s. 84(4)(b)(ii)].

Ridge_Fridge
04-21-2011, 11:23 PM
In lay-mans terms, if the guns are registered, and your friend has the proper registration cards, AND you have a valid PAL for the class of firearms you wish to borrow, you can borrow them as long as you remember to take the registration cards with you. Make sure you transport them correctly and have a safe and great time!

Ready, Aim...
04-21-2011, 11:31 PM
Thanks alot that was helpful. Going to print it.

haha49
04-22-2011, 01:31 AM
So basicly if you meet your friend at a range ect.. you can hand him your guns and he can take them home ie restricteds.. if you belive that he can legally have them

climbhigher
04-22-2011, 02:37 AM
Non restricteds are no problem. My understanding with restricteds is you pick them up from the owners house and go directly to the range, and when you are done return directly to their house. So for example you can't go home and clean them first. Of course you will need an ATT also.

ndb86
04-22-2011, 02:49 AM
Non restricteds are no problem. My understanding with restricteds is you pick them up from the owners house and go directly to the range, and when you are done return directly to their house. So for example you can't go home and clean them first. Of course you will need an ATT also.

nope sorry. You must meet your friend at the range, then you can take them home from there. to return them you must again meet at the range. In alberta at least your att will be good "to and from all approved gun ranges, gunsmiths and border crossings" and the other end of the att would be your home address. So meet buddy at range. grab gun and cert and go to YOUr home and you'd be good to go.

Non restricted get the cert and go blastin!

climbhigher
04-22-2011, 03:11 AM
nope sorry. You must meet your friend at the range, then you can take them home from there. to return them you must again meet at the range. In alberta at least your att will be good "to and from all approved gun ranges, gunsmiths and border crossings" and the other end of the att would be your home address. So meet buddy at range. grab gun and cert and go to YOUr home and you'd be good to go.

Non restricted get the cert and go blastin!

I guess your right. Your ATT would only cover your house to the range... You could always meet him at your local gunsmithing shop ;)
I thought somewhere the law stated that restricteds had to be stored at the residence in which they are registered to, unless en-route to a shoot/competition etc...
Regardless the whole thing is stupid. why I have to get a short term to transport a restricted that I buy from the store to home, when I already have a long term ATT is beyond me.

ndb86
04-22-2011, 03:13 AM
you're preachin to the choir there.

tiina
04-22-2011, 02:52 PM
Welcome aboard.

Ski911
04-22-2011, 03:13 PM
I would call for clarification on borrowing restricted firearms. I am not sure your ATT covers you to transport another guy's guns, as the reg #'s are not on your ATT. You may have to call in a get a special STATT to borrow restricted firearms from a buddy. It did say you can transport "all firearms for which you hold a registration certificate" but it also had the word often, meaning usually but not always.

ndb86
04-22-2011, 05:42 PM
I would call for clarification on borrowing restricted firearms. I am not sure your ATT covers you to transport another guy's guns, as the reg #'s are not on your ATT. You may have to call in a get a special STATT to borrow restricted firearms from a buddy. It did say you can transport "all firearms for which you hold a registration certificate" but it also had the word often, meaning usually but not always.

I don't know about other provinces, but in AB your LTATT's aren't firearm specific. there is nothing saying whose firearm you can transport and there is nothing to say say which firearms you can trasport.so in AB the way i described is the way to to it. however since not all province is created equal, YMMV.

coldestcanuck
04-22-2011, 07:21 PM
I don't know about other provinces, but in AB your LTATT's aren't firearm specific. there is nothing saying whose firearm you can transport and there is nothing to say say which firearms you can trasport.so in AB the way i described is the way to to it. however since not all province is created equal, YMMV.

Mine is good for anything I have the reg for--Have to do the swap at a range or gunsmith tho.(BC)

ndb86
04-22-2011, 07:23 PM
Mine is good for anything I have the reg for--Have to do the swap at a range or gunsmith tho.(BC)

So BC and AB are the same yay us!

ShootSavage
04-22-2011, 07:48 PM
Hey I'm wanting to go shooting tomorrow, and I would like to take some of my buddies guns with me. He has given me permission, and I have a PAL, but we were wondering if lending was allowed?
Thanks
I may be wrong but don't you have to have a PAL to acquire or provide a firearm in anyway, Buy, Borrow, lend or trade a firearm, so if I'm right and again I'm not sure but I think both you and your friends all have to have PALs so you can borrow and they can lend. Better check out the rules on the GOV web site for your own and your buddies sake

ndb86
04-22-2011, 07:55 PM
I may be wrong but don't you have to have a PAL to acquire or provide a firearm in anyway, Buy, Borrow, lend or trade a firearm, so if I'm right and again I'm not sure but I think both you and your friends all have to have PALs so you can borrow and they can lend. Better check out the rules on the GOV web site for your own and your buddies sake

? that makes NO sence to me..... You need a PAL to buy or borrow a firearm. A non PAL holder can shoot as long as they are under the supervision of a PAL holder. They can't go off on their own and shoot, but they can shoot under supervision.

ShootSavage
04-22-2011, 08:19 PM
? that makes NO sence to me..... You need a PAL to buy or borrow a firearm. A non PAL holder can shoot as long as they are under the supervision of a PAL holder. They can't go off on their own and shoot, but they can shoot under supervision.
Like I said I'm not sure if what I said is fact or not but I seem to remember reading it in the rules many years ago, but I could vary from Provence to Provence anyway, but it's better to check and be sure of the rules. Yes I know your right about the shooting under supervision at a range, I think what I mentioned may have to do with hunting like I said it's been years since I've read the Pal rules I think it may be time I read them again. I still think Ready, Aim should check them out for himself to be sure of how it works in his area.

ndb86
04-22-2011, 08:39 PM
Like I said I'm not sure if what I said is fact or not but I seem to remember reading it in the rules many years ago, but I could vary from Provence to Provence anyway, but it's better to check and be sure of the rules. Yes I know your right about the shooting under supervision at a range, I think what I mentioned may have to do with hunting like I said it's been years since I've read the Pal rules I think it may be time I read them again. I still think Ready, Aim should check them out for himself to be sure of how it works in his area.

Definately check for your area, however in my area what i stated is true for the range and for hunting.

Aero_Plane
04-22-2011, 09:01 PM
O.K. i just did this in Ontario. I have my rpal and ATT and wanted to "borrow" a friends restricted. You have to call and get what she called a "borrowers" permit. I had to give his address , registration info and pal info and all my info and club info. Then the hours for which you want it (i said 24 because my club is 24) and then the duration. Mine was good for a week 24hr day. SO...it let me go to his house, pick up his restricted and transport it to my club then back to his house when done. Does not give me the right to take it home and keep it in my possession for the week. Only to transport said firearm from point A to B back to A.

ndb86
04-22-2011, 09:28 PM
O.K. i just did this in Ontario. I have my rpal and ATT and wanted to "borrow" a friends restricted. You have to call and get what she called a "borrowers" permit. I had to give his address , registration info and pal info and all my info and club info. Then the hours for which you want it (i said 24 because my club is 24) and then the duration. Mine was good for a week 24hr day. SO...it let me go to his house, pick up his restricted and transport it to my club then back to his house when done. Does not give me the right to take it home and keep it in my possession for the week. Only to transport said firearm from point A to B back to A.

damn that sucks. that's again why i'm glad i'm albertan!

cruzsofializ
04-23-2011, 01:36 AM
hello,im new here.when barrowing gun,there must be a permssion.

leadhead36
04-23-2011, 09:15 AM
when borrowing guns you must have perrmission and the reg cards and your pal card that is all you need