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Thread: Employment application

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigrunes View Post
    Bottom line is the company/person hiring can hire who they feel is the best candidate for the job, it's the way it is and the way it always has been. If your point of this thread is to help this company and alert them to possible wording flaws or whatever, cool, but if your saying that a bipolar pyscopath with a personality disorder should handle weapons and ammo and be around people in a potentially tense environment then your common sense is lacking. I have no problem and sympathize with people with disabilities mental or physical but if they shouldn't be in a certain line of work or not capable in that line of work then it's up to the hiring company to weed that out and chose a suitable candidate of their choosing, period.
    [deep sigh] Yeah. That's what he was saying. [rolls eyes] He wasn't simply pointing out that the comment on the application was both needless and possibly violative. There is already a requirement for applicants to have an RPAL, so relax.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregb View Post
    Doesn't really matter if it is law or not. The hiring company can decide who to hire for whatever reason HR can concoct/spin. Even if it came down between two individuals and one had a
    history of mental illness and the other on did not, - they could just pick the one that did not and state that he/ she was more qualified for the position. If the other individual
    wants to claim they were unfairly treated or there was prejudice based on their mental health history, they can try... Time consuming + costly = probably never going to happen.
    Oh my, no, that's not correct. It's completely free to make an application to the Ontario Human Rights Tribunal. Legal assistance for applicants is free. Legal costs can't be awarded. In other words, applicants bear no costs, while respondents are wholly responsible to pay their own legal bills, with no prospect of recovery even in cases of dismissal or favourable judgement. As to how often it happens, here's a link to the OHTR decisions from July alone, there's about 200 of them - https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onhrt/n...e/2014_07.html

    In the example you construct, that's all it would take - an prospective employee disclosing they do not meet that condition as specified in the application, and subsequently not being selected for the position. Doesn't matter what the grounds are; that wording in the application alone is more than sufficient to substantiate an application to the OHTR that an employer would then have to respond to. This is not cheap, nor quick, nor obviously a problem any business needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhite View Post
    I work with HR people developing process. I would think you realize there are exceptions to rules and in this case you would need to be mentality all there to be working with gun Restricted and Non. Any time a specific license is required you can be excluded if you don't have it. For example a Pest Control company can refuse to hire someone who does not posses all the necessary licenses or a Fishing boat could refuse to hire you if you were always sick on a boat and couldn't handle being out on the water.
    As I said in my post prior, I think there would be a very hard case to make that if an applicant possessed an RPAL that TS could then discriminate on the basis of mental disorder or disability. As in impossible. The examples you cite AREN'T protected grounds as defined in the Ontario Human Rights Act; therefore you can ABSOLUTELY impose conditions like having a certain license or permit or whatever. Disabilities however, ARE protected from discrimination in the OHRA, as is the point of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhite View Post
    I'm guessing you have only worked in an office environment.
    Totally. Except for the 12 years I spent in the combat arms in the Army and those pesky field trips to places like Bosnia and Afghanistan.
    Last edited by flashman; 08-10-2014 at 11:51 PM.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewolfchild View Post
    [deep sigh] Yeah. That's what he was saying. [rolls eyes] He wasn't simply pointing out that the comment on the application was both needless and possibly violative. There is already a requirement for applicants to have an RPAL, so relax.
    Lolz... I was trying to avoid being a smartass actually, I couldn't come up with a polite way to point out that psychopathy IS a personality disorder, so saying "a psychopath with a personality disorder" is redundant. Unless you mean a SECOND personality disorder of course. Although, actually, the question of bipolar psychopaths with a possible comorbid personality disorder possessing firearms isn't one for any of us to answer; that's for the CFO to decide after receiving information from that person's physician. That's why they have those questions on the PAL application and renewal forms. That's the process. I'm sure there are in fact a number of people with bipolar disorder who are licensed to own firearms in Canada. And many many more with diagnosed or un diagnosed psychopathic traits.
    Last edited by flashman; 08-10-2014 at 11:57 PM.

  4. #14
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    Have you applied to a police force, flight school or military lately? Pretty sure you cant get a job there unless you have 20/20 vision and all psychological conditions met. We have just turned into a bunch of sissies in north America and think everything is personal and unfair.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginster View Post
    Have you applied to a police force, flight school or military lately? Pretty sure you cant get a job there unless you have 20/20 vision and all psychological conditions met. We have just turned into a bunch of sissies in north America and think everything is personal and unfair.
    I have not seen a police officer that is physically or mentally handicapped.
    What?

  6. #16
    CGN Regular Marilius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginster View Post
    Have you applied to a police force, flight school or military lately? Pretty sure you cant get a job there unless you have 20/20 vision and all psychological conditions met. We have just turned into a bunch of sissies in north America and think everything is personal and unfair.
    To my knowledge, those careers have specific exemptions for certain types of discrimination. I am an air traffic controller, and the company is exempted to allow them to discriminate on the basis of several physical disabilities (vision, hearing). But they need special exemption to be able to do that.

  7. #17
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer Aries-'s Avatar
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    the final say does come down to the CFO of the province. a business can higher whoever they like, but the CFO has to OK them and add them to the business license in the end. thats after a background check, and some other stuff to make sure the "employee" is ok by their standards.

    working in the business i can see why that would be on the list. the ready access to firearms and ammunition.
    working in a firearms store is very stressful, takes a certain kind of attitude and personality to work in one.

  8. #18
    CGN Regular voncosbies's Avatar
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    Here's how the process would go;
    Someone applies
    They see the part about metal illness
    They file a complaint with human rights
    Human rights sees the basic requirements to accept the claim
    The company now has to hire a lawyer to counter the claim
    The 2 parties will be sent to mediation were the company will pay out a couple grand (if they're smart)
    With settlement, legal fees and time loss.... Most companies will loose about $10k

    This isn't up for debate, this is how the law is set up to work.

  9. #19
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer fenceline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew3081 View Post
    I have not seen a police officer that is physically or mentally handicapped.
    There are front line officers with prosthetics legs. You might not see it though as they wear pants.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenceline View Post
    There are front line officers with prosthetics legs. You might not see it though as they wear pants.
    Mind saying which police force? I never seen or heard about it.
    What?

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