16 (c) of the PAL and RPAL

[Dworblack]

Hi there folks my name is Harry and i am a fellow Canadian looking into getting my PAL/RPAL, I recently passed my CFSC and CFRSC with fairly good marks and kind words from my instructor wishing me the best in participating in this sport for the future to come. While going through the application, I came across Section 16 (c) which i am sure you folks are familiar with but if not the section is as follows,

During the past five (5) years, have you threatened or attempted suicide, or have you suffered from or been diagnosed or
treated by a medical practitioner for: depression; alcohol, drug or substance abuse; behavioural problems; or emotional
problems?

Now reading this i can say its a bit more confusing than intended because for one thing, I had no real idea what they defined as behavioral or emotional disorders, which i started looking into and found quite a few past threads from people on this forum alone. Now i know that lying is not an accepted answer when applying and I DO NOT WANT to be charged with uttering a false statement among other things but when digging deeper, i found a post linking to this PDF, http://www.priv.gc.ca/information/fr_010813_e.pdf which breaks down the reasoning for requesting private information. Someone in the thread further broke down the information regarding the 16 (c) and boiled the question down to,

The actual wording of the relevant guideline is :

... has been treated for a mental illness ... that was associated with violence or threatened or attempted violence on the part of the person against any person.

Now ill be first to admit when i was younger i did suffer from depression but that was nearly 13+ years ago as a young teen and was prescribed Anti Dep Meds at the time, I haven't been taking them in 10+ years and have not seen any Psychiatrist/Psychologist or my GP doc for regular treatment since i felt the symptoms had abated. Fast forward to 2012 I started some counseling as a means to help me vent my thoughts to a third party and the counselor (not a MD of any-kind) suggested i talk to my doctor about anxiety and to see if medications would help me somewhat.....at which point my gp agreed to try and help figure out the issue and tried multiple different medications to see if they would help, unfortunately none of them did and still to this day I do not take any Medications for depression/anxiety issues. I do not believe a formal mental Health disorder was ever diagnosed for me as far as i understand and ive never been violent or have threatened anyone in my life, let alone the last five years.

Would i be alright in answering no regarding the question, under the presumption given the facts as i presented them that i have Not had any formal Disorder diagnosed nor i have i had any violence associated with said issues in the past five years.....


Sorry if this topic is played out, I hope i was able to give some factual background info into myself, I've always been passionately interested in firearms since i was a small child, I am very excited at the prospects of being able to enter competitive target shooting plus I've always wanted to freeze my ass off outside for a few days trying to supply a near infinite supply of moose/deer jerky I don't wanna say no and have it hurt my chances of getting MY PAL/RPAL denied but i don't want to say yes when it might be unnecessary and open myself up for additional probing, thank you in advance for your time which you took considering my topic.

[pkmtl]

It's probably best not to lie. You will still probably get your license, it will just take more checking on their side. Whatever happened longer then 5 years ago, you are not required to tell them.

[ESP]

Medication is used for treatment AND diagnosis of conditions.

When a Doctor prescribed you medication he/she is compelled to write this down in their clinical report typically documenting reasons for prescribing the medication. Doctor's don't typically prescribe without reason and if it's on a trial basis there should still be a documented reason for such a trial.

Over 5 years ago not an issue… the 2012 instance is less than 3 years ago.
The question clearly says "have you suffered from or been diagnosed OR treated by a medical practitioner for"
So yes you have suffered from, and you have been treated thats 2 out if the three points asked, and as mentioned once your treated the diagnosis part is a given.

What is also concerning is that you have admitted since 2012 that no medications have worked and you currently take no medications, so the question is are you depressed or not and if so do you feel it's a significant matter tat required continued clinical observation and treatment? Are firearms safe in your possession? Should you hold off until you find treatment that works?

It's not entirely unreasonable that some people may suffer some form of mild depression or anxiety at some point for instance after a friend or loved one passes away etc. The question may be how long, and significant the episode is/was and has the anxiety/depression negatively effected your life in any significant way.

When you answer yes to the application question the RCMP will likely investigate further reasonably compelled to send you a medical consent form so they can request your medical records from the appropriate clinicians.

[Dworblack]

Over 5 years ago not an issue… the 2012 instance is less than 3 years ago.
[/COLOR]The question clearly says "have you suffered from or been diagnosed OR treated by a medical practitioner for"
So yes you have suffered from, and you have been treated thats 2 out if the three points asked, and as mentioned once your treated the diagnosis part is a given.

What is also concerning is that you have admitted since 2012 that no medications have worked and you currently take no medications, so the question is are you depressed or not and if so do you feel it's a significant matter tat required continued clinical observation and treatment? Are firearms safe in your possession? Should you hold off until you find treatment that works?

Alright fair enough, i was under the impression that i had to be actually diagnosed with a Psychiatric diagnosis (ie general anxiety disorder, social anxiety disorder, Panic disorder, Clinical Depression disorder) to be considered having It and a general practitioner did not have the capacity to issue an Psychiatric diagnosis, A Psychiatrist can though. As to the 2012 incident, my doctor agreed that the medication was not working and took me off the prescriptions due to them not offering me any benefit and for the undesired side-effects, at which point he recommended I just continue with my counseling i receive because he felt this was the most beneficial and logical choice and what was working.

To answer your question regarding am i depressed currently? no, this is why i do not take anti depression medications and why my Dr. does not continue to prescribe them for myself, i mentioned this in my first post, I said i haven't been treated for depression in a clinical setting for the past nine years.


It really seems to come down to this from what you are saying, I am an apparent danger to myself and others because i have suffered from depression as a younger person and occasional anxiety at points in my life as an adult and that I should not be eligible to participate in this sport due to the remote possibility regardless of how small it may be, a modicum if you will, That i will present a danger to the general public even though it is extremely contrary to my personal character or morality.

Guess i should just look into getting a under 600fps pellet gun and i can plink with that, its a shame because i could of taken the course fees from the CFSC/CRFSC and got started, oh well you live and learn

[ESP]

Having said this how you answer the application question is up to you.

As well your passing marks on the required PAL training do not expire. Should you decide not to apply at this time you could still apply in the future.