Truth abou Target/Grange's 3-week Ontario CFO LATT processing time.

[Protege]

I need to clarify: The Grange Club is NOT owned or operated by Target Sports Canada. In Ontario, the interpretation of non-profit is much stricter from the CFO's perspective, so we have outsourced the club activities and are, as such, not allowed to dictate to the club how it operates. Further: BJ, the membership coordinator, is paid for his activities. It is not volunteer work.

If you have any issues with the Grange, please email their president directly: Dr. Michael Hawke <hawke@fastmail.fm>. I have been assured he will sort out the issues asap.

As to the $450,000 in renovations: They have started and over the next 90-120 days will be completed.

My direct email is: jr@theedgegroup.ca

Cheers,

JR

Thank you for replying. I will stand corrected about BJ being a volunteer.

[Protege]

my bad, didn't read carefully on your post about the Urban.

for Grange's spouse membership fee, it's per year. spouse independent(meaning he/she can go alone any time) is $250/year, always go with the better half together would only cause $120/year. So, another benefit from having a good marriage I guess.
it's explained in the url I posted.

That's a bit of a cash grab. So, what if she just wants to watch? My wife is kind of weird that way.

[SGuard6]

The misinformation in this thread is astounding.

First off, in my experience, when I became a member and paid my fees my membership did not become official and the clock didn't start until I received my FOB and ID card, which was after the ATT was issued (as in I paid in March and the annual membership began in April). So I never lost 3 weeks of the year while waiting. Also, there are times of the year when far more ATTs are being processed so being patient is just part of the CFO game.

Secondly, for everyone saying that walk ins take priority over members, you couldn't be more wrong in this assessment. There are two range bays, one exclusively for members and their guests, the other is mainly for walk ins, however, anytime that I have been there and all lanes on members range was full I simply moved over to the walk in range and used a lane there with no issue. I have never been there and not been able to get a lane, especially due to walk ins taking them all (and I shoot every week exclusively on weekends). Because they stagger the walk ins into staged time slots this simply doesn't happen! If you feel this is that much of a concern, I would suggest using the extra hour when they first open the doors for members only. Sure that means you're going at 9-10am, but then you do not have to deal with any unsafe walk ins taking selfies. And on that note, acting like shooting with walk ins is somehow unsafe is disingenuous. The fact is every walk in that is shooting has a personal range officer with them monitoring their every action. The same cannot be said for the members and frankly I feel equally safe shooting in either range.

Lastly, I'd like to address the complaints about the pricing. If it's too much for you, don't go there. A large part of the high price is the convenience of location. Sure I could pay half what they charge and go much farther, but you'll lose those 'savings' in gas, vehicle mileage and maintenance not to mention precious time driving in that lovely GTA traffic. Time is money as they say.

Now with all that being said, there have certainly been times in the store where I have stood around waiting for service while all the staff was tied up dealing with non members and I'll be the first to admit that is frustrating as all hell. Are my phone calls always responded to in what I would consider a timely fashion? Not always. And I'd be lying if I said the ventilation system doesn't suck (or blow). The air flow and movement is straight up Terrible (with a capital T)!! Would I like to not be limited to pistol calibers and buckshot? Hell yeah! Luckily that is being addressed (to what extent it will be improved remains to be seen).

One final point, again regarding walk ins and non members. I personally applaud Target Sports for the number of unlicensed shooters they introduce to the sport (I was in those excited to be there shoes a few years ago) and provide a positive first experience (especially the incredible amount of females). Gunnies love to talk about spreading the sport to the masses, that is until it inconveniences their own range time it seems.

TL;DR
No range is perfect. If this one is not for you, go somewhere else, and be sure to spend as much time on the internet praising that range as you have complaining about this one. I have a mostly positive experience at this range and with its staff. Obviously everyone's mileage may and will vary!

Sorry for the essay, and good luck to you all!

[luckey]

Just to set the record straight on the "misinformation" for the "First off" part as I believe you are being there too long and didn't pay attention to the current rules which is normal because it only affects new people that ONLY have restricted firearms to begin with, like myself.
as per the url: http://www.grangesports.org/membership in the "New members" section, AND explained in the CLSC, AND explained during the probation shoot. the full membership starts at the minute the newbie passes the accuracy shoot(the last one after the probation safety shoots, the one counts as exam because all 10 shots must land on the yellow paper). From that moment on, it will take two weeks to get the fob and member card ready, 3-4 weeks for LATT processed. So, if the newbie happens to have non-restricted to shoot, NO impact to him/her AT ALL. In my case, I ONLY have RESTRICTED, so, while I am technically allowed, without the LATT(member card and fob never are the issue as the staff will happily open the door for you), I have to either pay up for the expensive ammo, or waste around 3-4 weeks membership which is a lose-lose situation. Normally it would be ok because if the ATT application was submitted, unless CFO is really jammed, the ATT will be ready when the member card and fob are, just like the person, who works in the hospital, posted earlier. Then it's just my luck that it felt through the crack which is not pleasure, but I am ok because they did identify the cause and help to address the issue. Nothing was intentional and no one is perfect, myself included. so, all in all, I would say it's ok, especially around the holiday seasons. In this sport, especially given it's not really that popular to the general public, I would like think members and clubs are partners and should work together to promote the sports we love. So.. Happy holidays to all.

The misinformation in this thread is astounding.

First off, in my experience, when I became a member and paid my fees my membership did not become official and the clock didn't start until I received my FOB and ID card, which was after the ATT was issued (as in I paid in March and the annual membership began in April). So I never lost 3 weeks of the year while waiting. Also, there are times of the year when far more ATTs are being processed so being patient is just part of the CFO game.

Secondly, for everyone saying that walk ins take priority over members, you couldn't be more wrong in this assessment. There are two range bays, one exclusively for members and their guests, the other is mainly for walk ins, however, anytime that I have been there and all lanes on members range was full I simply moved over to the walk in range and used a lane there with no issue. I have never been there and not been able to get a lane, especially due to walk ins taking them all (and I shoot every week exclusively on weekends). Because they stagger the walk ins into staged time slots this simply doesn't happen! If you feel this is that much of a concern, I would suggest using the extra hour when they first open the doors for members only. Sure that means you're going at 9-10am, but then you do not have to deal with any unsafe walk ins taking selfies. And on that note, acting like shooting with walk ins is somehow unsafe is disingenuous. The fact is every walk in that is shooting has a personal range officer with them monitoring their every action. The same cannot be said for the members and frankly I feel equally safe shooting in either range.

Lastly, I'd like to address the complaints about the pricing. If it's too much for you, don't go there. A large part of the high price is the convenience of location. Sure I could pay half what they charge and go much farther, but you'll lose those 'savings' in gas, vehicle mileage and maintenance not to mention precious time driving in that lovely GTA traffic. Time is money as they say.

Now with all that being said, there have certainly been times in the store where I have stood around waiting for service while all the staff was tied up dealing with non members and I'll be the first to admit that is frustrating as all hell. Are my phone calls always responded to in what I would consider a timely fashion? Not always. And I'd be lying if I said the ventilation system doesn't suck (or blow). The air flow and movement is straight up Terrible (with a capital T)!! Would I like to not be limited to pistol calibers and buckshot? Hell yeah! Luckily that is being addressed (to what extent it will be improved remains to be seen).

One final point, again regarding walk ins and non members. I personally applaud Target Sports for the number of unlicensed shooters they introduce to the sport (I was in those excited to be there shoes a few years ago) and provide a positive first experience (especially the incredible amount of females). Gunnies love to talk about spreading the sport to the masses, that is until it inconveniences their own range time it seems.

TL;DR
No range is perfect. If this one is not for you, go somewhere else, and be sure to spend as much time on the internet praising that range as you have complaining about this one. I have a mostly positive experience at this range and with its staff. Obviously everyone's mileage may and will vary!

Sorry for the essay, and good luck to you all!

[chinamon]

im doing my CLSC tomorrow at Target Sports. hope everything goes smoothly from here.

[luckey]

I believe watching outside of the safety glass is FREE which is about two meters far from the booth and I have done a few times when I was there. Especially it's hard to avoid the S&W 460. Fun to watch, not so much when shooting beside it.

That's a bit of a cash grab. So, what if she just wants to watch? My wife is kind of weird that way.

[luckey]

As a full member now, I guess I can say welcome and good luck!

im doing my CLSC tomorrow at Target Sports. hope everything goes smoothly from here.

[SGuard6]

In that case, Luckey I'm sorry to hear that something along the way got botched with your ATT. I wasn't attacking anybody in particular, simply explaining my experience versus what others had experienced. I guess I was lucky because my FOB, ID & ATT all came in around the same time, roughly two weeks. Then upon renewal I had to wait another couple weeks for another ATT. Luckily that one is valid until my RPAL expires so shouldn't have to lose anymore time waiting for paperwork. Congrats on becoming a member, hope you enjoy it as I think you're coming in at the right time, as previously mentioned some upgrades are incoming in the near future, if not underway already. And as I stated, how those upgrades turn out remains to be seen. Hopefully I will see you there enjoying some pew pew time!

[Protege]

The misinformation in this thread is astounding.

First off, in my experience, when I became a member and paid my fees my membership did not become official and the clock didn't start until I received my FOB and ID card, which was after the ATT was issued (as in I paid in March and the annual membership began in April). So I never lost 3 weeks of the year while waiting. Also, there are times of the year when far more ATTs are being processed so being patient is just part of the CFO game.

Secondly, for everyone saying that walk ins take priority over members, you couldn't be more wrong in this assessment. There are two range bays, one exclusively for members and their guests, the other is mainly for walk ins, however, anytime that I have been there and all lanes on members range was full I simply moved over to the walk in range and used a lane there with no issue. I have never been there and not been able to get a lane, especially due to walk ins taking them all (and I shoot every week exclusively on weekends). Because they stagger the walk ins into staged time slots this simply doesn't happen! If you feel this is that much of a concern, I would suggest using the extra hour when they first open the doors for members only. Sure that means you're going at 9-10am, but then you do not have to deal with any unsafe walk ins taking selfies. And on that note, acting like shooting with walk ins is somehow unsafe is disingenuous. The fact is every walk in that is shooting has a personal range officer with them monitoring their every action. The same cannot be said for the members and frankly I feel equally safe shooting in either range.

Lastly, I'd like to address the complaints about the pricing. If it's too much for you, don't go there. A large part of the high price is the convenience of location. Sure I could pay half what they charge and go much farther, but you'll lose those 'savings' in gas, vehicle mileage and maintenance not to mention precious time driving in that lovely GTA traffic. Time is money as they say.

Now with all that being said, there have certainly been times in the store where I have stood around waiting for service while all the staff was tied up dealing with non members and I'll be the first to admit that is frustrating as all hell. Are my phone calls always responded to in what I would consider a timely fashion? Not always. And I'd be lying if I said the ventilation system doesn't suck (or blow). The air flow and movement is straight up Terrible (with a capital T)!! Would I like to not be limited to pistol calibers and buckshot? Hell yeah! Luckily that is being addressed (to what extent it will be improved remains to be seen).

One final point, again regarding walk ins and non members. I personally applaud Target Sports for the number of unlicensed shooters they introduce to the sport (I was in those excited to be there shoes a few years ago) and provide a positive first experience (especially the incredible amount of females). Gunnies love to talk about spreading the sport to the masses, that is until it inconveniences their own range time it seems.

TL;DR
No range is perfect. If this one is not for you, go somewhere else, and be sure to spend as much time on the internet praising that range as you have complaining about this one. I have a mostly positive experience at this range and with its staff. Obviously everyone's mileage may and will vary!

Sorry for the essay, and good luck to you all!

You need to re-read the first post. It has nothing to do with a backlog of ATT submissions on the part of the CFO. There was supposedly an email glitch and the CFO never received the application in the first place...and the OP's application sat for 3 weeks doing nothing. I don't think the OP is really pissed about that (ok maybe a bit). The main point here is the OP having a hard time contacting the right person to fix his/her problem. At this point, yes, money becomes an issue. The OP is paying twice the amount versus other nearby ranges, and is expecting better than average service - and in his/her mind, those expectations are not being met.

[Punisher-One]

This is a bold faced lie. But of course it is easy to post slander from an anon ip address.

No.....no it is absolutely NOT a bold faced lie. My life-long friend and someone I trust a lot more than you was fired for speaking out about the safety issues surrounding your lack of ventilation.

I typed out a huge response to you JR but I deleted it as I thought better of it. I have a huge distaste of your management and how you treated people I am friends with. I will not be giving you my name so it can affect my membership and LTATT. Call me a liar all you want that is fine. I am not a liar, I am not lying, and we both know exactly what I am talking about. There is a reason some really really good counter and management staff do not work at Target anymore......and have obtained better positions in other firearms/shooting related companies.

I will say that for $600/year you should be doing better. Non-member walk ins taking priority over members for lanes and service (this is true also). I don't care if my guest is not a member they are a member's paying guest and should not be told they can not have a lane because walk-ins are priority. That is not right. Non-member walk-ins not disciplined for things members would be revoked for. The money is clearly in the walk-ins and it shows with the service and the shooting lanes. That is sad. If you want to do walk-ins to make extra money I get it......but they shouldn't be taking priority away from people that pay $600/year to be there each and every year. Membership should come with more perks than a single lane (maybe) if there aren't too many walk ins.

On the flip side BJ is a good guy. So are several of the counter staff that I'll deal with....the only ones I'll deal with. The store is actually well-priced when it comes to accessories and with the new 5.11 stuff I have to say I was impressed. The prices on the 5.11 stuff actually can't be beat.