Truth abou Target/Grange's 3-week Ontario CFO LATT processing time.

[luckey]

Thanks SGuard6, I like the place and the people so far. Things do happen as we are all human, so as long as it's addressed, no biggie. see u on the range.

In that case, Luckey I'm sorry to hear that something along the way got botched with your ATT. I wasn't attacking anybody in particular, simply explaining my experience versus what others had experienced. I guess I was lucky because my FOB, ID & ATT all came in around the same time, roughly two weeks. Then upon renewal I had to wait another couple weeks for another ATT. Luckily that one is valid until my RPAL expires so shouldn't have to lose anymore time waiting for paperwork. Congrats on becoming a member, hope you enjoy it as I think you're coming in at the right time, as previously mentioned some upgrades are incoming in the near future, if not underway already. And as I stated, how those upgrades turn out remains to be seen. Hopefully I will see you there enjoying some pew pew time!

[Sharked]

I have heard from many RO's they are not happy about what you are trying to do. I'm not going to name them as they are still working at Target.

You claim that RO's now watch 2 lanes. On weekends there is one RO watching each lane with sometimes another senior RO watching everyone from the back.


Your own words were that TSE has less lanes and does much more walk-ins and that Target needs to push more walk-ins through. It was stated they needed more RO's and you said that TSE has up to three lines shooting per RO.

You even said about maybe changing the stall walls to be glass so 1 RO can watch all lanes.

[CGN Admin]

The forum will not tolerate accusation made in the public forum.

The poster "sharked", you need to retract calling people liars immediately, or we will hand you an infraction. This is not the first time you post accusation in the public.

[luckey]

Hi J.R.

mainly two rules/processes.

one is the full membership start time. the current rule lacks consideration to new members who only has restricted, especially when target is designed to be pistol range. As you can see from the various posts, the best scenario is to wait for two weeks for the ATT. in my case, an email glitch sets me back for more than a month. Money is one thing, but not the real big deal as it's 25, 50 we are talking here. However, from business perspective, it does not look good as not only I am not treated like a welcomed member, but also given the expensive ammo associated with range gun use, there would be a perception that target is trying to squeeze out more from members. Ideally, the membership should start when the ATT arrives as we all know the Ontario CFO is pretty reasonsable(I have been watching the processing time for a while), or at least starts when the member card and fob are ready which is more under your control than ATT if CFO time is still a concern. I think this is fair unless I missed something.
two is about the glitch. This exposes two issues as far as I can see. A. a single point of failure in your process. As claimed, there are 2000 members in the club, yet only one person handles all the requests with NO backup whatsoever. In the multiple attempts I talked to the store, all except the store manager know neither his work schedule nor the mean to contact him. Even for the store manager, he was hesitate to do anything until I told him that the issue is definitely not CFO. Yet still he could only contact that person to address the issue. This should and can be addressed without adding much cost. I do manage people with the same budget constraint like everyone else, but it's part of the business continuity plan to ensure every single function in your business to have a backup. B. Request tracking/following up. Based on the experience, one should have an expectation what's the turnaround and follow-up if nothing back in the reasonable time frame.This can be done either with a simple calendar alerts, or speadsheet which again, no cost, but process and training.

Could you clarify what rules and policies you find confusing or frustrating. I try hard to keep the Target rules limited. I need more info to address this potential concern.

Cheers,

JR

[Punisher-One]

To both: Sharked and Punisher One

You have no idea what you are writing. As I have pretty low turnover, I can make a pretty good guess as to your two "sources". They were hardly let go for voicing safety concerns.

Yes, TSE is more profitable but if your two "sources" actually told you what was discussed at a confidential staff meeting, you would know that I have been training them to push on the retail. Not the range. As far as I am concerned, the range is at capacity. Which is why we also do not advertise the range use.

And yes, an RO should be able to watch two lanes at a time. We have a proven method and give the ROs appropriate training to do this safely and efficiently. We already have the ROs in Target watch 2 lanes. After 14 years experience and over 150,000 newbies trained, I challenge your to opinion with fact.

As to safety: The ONLY safety issues we have at all, stem from the members. Just look at the roof on A range compared to B range. Currently we spend about $3k a month welding and repairing A range (members side) compared to about $500-750 on the B range (walk-ins). We have had members have actual NDs outside the bays, NEVER even muzzle issues with walk-ins. This week alone we found 7.62x39 brass, 5.56 brass and 7.62 Tokarov brass on the members side. All 3 are prohibited cartridges at this time and 2 of the 3 cause massive damage and HUGE safety concerns. I suggest the membership police themselves better before condemning the rest of the business.

As to "exclusivity": This is a myth perpetuated by wants and desires. While we make every effort to keep the walk-ins out of the A range, occasionally it happens. It is not a regular practice, but I am not going to apologize for it. There are reasons ALL new ranges encourage walk-ins; it grows the sport and it pays the bills.

I take these lies very personally. If you actually believed what your wrote with any conviction, you would put your real name out here. But nope... hiding in the the shadows is easier.

I will leave this thread open till this afternoon and delete it as it serves no purpose other than to forward some negative agenda.

JR

I have more of an idea of what I am talking about than you ever will. Your arrogance gets in the way of you accepting any criticism from anyone, even experienced members at your club and of course employees. Any employee who voices a concern is gone. You will not ever change my mind. Members who voice concerns are told "go somewhere else" as you have said numerous times on this forum. Your attitude is clear and it is that you don't give a crap what members say or any thoughts/concerns they have. You simply tell them to leave if they don't like it. After this display of arrogance on here I will NEVER spend another dime at any business you are involved in. I hope people read this and think twice about giving your businesses any money at all. Your clubs are not worth the premiums paid to be members. Target has some awesome employees now and has had many awesome employees in the past. It is your lack of concern for members and employees opinions, JR, that drives good employees and members from that club.

I take what I say 100% seriously and I 100% back up what I say. I am NOT putting my name on here so you can kick me out and ban me from the premises like you have done to the many employees you have disgracefully fired over the years. Forget that bud.
If you took these "lies" personally maybe you would listen to our concerns instead of arrogantly calling us liars and insisting there are no problems to be taken care of at Target.

Delete any thread that damages your rep eh. Talk about can't let the real opinion of target out there. What a joke.

[Punisher-One]

Oh.....for posterity I have saved this page on my computer for when the thread is deleted. I can post it up once a day if you like? Or maybe you can leave it open and attempt to have a dialogue with us. Either way I leave the ball in your court.
I will say that a real business owner that cared for his members would attempt to have a dialogue with us and understand our concerns and offer positive solutions. They would not, like you have, call us liars, tell us we have no idea, and then tell us you are locking the thread because you don't like our opinions. I guess free speech applies anywhere but Target and The Shooting Edge eh? Disgusting.

[Punisher-One]

The forum will not tolerate accusation made in the public forum.

The poster "sharked", you need to retract calling people liars immediately, or we will hand you an infraction. This is not the first time you post accusation in the public.

So JR can call us liars and that is ok with CGN admin but you caution us? Come on my friend.

[Sharked]

I have edited my post and removed the word lie, as you requested.

The forum will not tolerate accusation made in the public forum.

The poster "sharked", you need to retract calling people liars immediately, or we will hand you an infraction. This is not the first time you post accusation in the public.

[Punisher-One]

If you sent me a PM I would gladly send you an email with everything I have observed that I am concerned about. I will even do it from my real email address if you like. If you care and if you are open to changing things. There are things I have seen there that I would never post in a public forum about a range. I support our sport too much to say some things in public.

[TSE JR]

Hi J.R.

mainly two rules/processes.

one is the full membership start time. the current rule lacks consideration to new members who only has restricted, especially when target is designed to be pistol range. As you can see from the various posts, the best scenario is to wait for two weeks for the ATT. in my case, an email glitch sets me back for more than a month. Money is one thing, but not the real big deal as it's 25, 50 we are talking here. However, from business perspective, it does look good as not only I am not treated like a welcomed member, but also given the expensive ammo associated with range gun use, there would be a perception that target is trying to squeeze out more from members. Ideally, the membership should start when the ATT arrives as we all know the Ontario CFO is pretty reasonsable(I have been watching the processing time for a while), or at least starts when the member card and fob are ready which is more under your control than ATT if CFO time is still a concern. I think this is fairunles I missed something.
two is about the glitch. This exposes two issues as far as I can see. A. a single point of failure in your process. As claimed, there are 2000 members in the club, yet only one person handles all the requests with NO backup whatsoever. In the multiple attempts I talked to the store, all except the store manager know neither his work schedule nor the mean to contact him. Even for the store manager, he was hesitate to do anything until I told him that the issue is definitely not CFO. Yet still he could only contact that person to address the issue. This should and can be addressed without adding much cost. I do manage people with the same budget constraint like everyone else, but it's part of the business continuity plan to ensure every single function in your business to have a backup. B. Request tracking/following up. Based on the experience, one should have an expectation what's the turnaround and follow-up if nothing back in the reasonable time frame.This can be done either with a simple calendar alerts, or speadsheet which again, no cost, but process and training.

Luckey,

Thanks for the follow-up.

I will look into the start date. Fortunately, once the new laws come into effect, there will be no need for a waiting period as the LTATT becomes part of the P.A.L. This will also help speed things up.

There most definitely is NOT 2000 members. There is less than 1000 members and this fluctuates monthly. Unfortunately, the GRANGE club controls the paperflow, so any issues with that needs to be brought up with them. It has nothing to do with budgets, it has to do with the Grange itself. We have asked to have a Grange representative (B.J.) available at specific scheduled times, but we cannot demand. Those changes have to be made by the Grange executive.