Modern Hunter Caliber Choice

[rickspeed]

.308..... 22" barrel, cereakote in O.D. green. upper/lower & barrel....

I can't wait.....

[Johnny_Canuck]

When I put my order in, it'll be 6.5 creedmoor. The high penetrative power and sectional densities make for a round that hits above it's weight class. The high Ballistic coefficients make for a 140 grain bullet that quickly outstrips a 308 for retained velocity and energy. Low recoil and a semi auto means that if bullwinkle or mr elk does need a second one, it is on the way very quickly. My biggest hang up is waiting for guys to get theirs and wring them out to see *exactly* how accurate they are. I trust ATRS to make an accurate product. I just want to see someone tune a load in 6.5 cm for theirs and break it in before I put my cash on the barrel head. If all goes according to plan I'll be hard pressed to not buy one in 300 win mag once they come.

[hawk-i]

6.5cm??? :-O so like over THREE TIMES the diameter of a 20mm cannon? Yeah I'd say that is a little bit overkill!!!
You could get away with a projectile one TENTH of that diameter and still be ok.

OK now seriously.
The old timers in Ontario where I grew-up thought nothing of moose hunting with a .30-.30. There was the rare .300WM and more common (but not COMMON common) were .300 savages. Typically back then though most people thought of a .308 as an huge and powerful big bore...at least compared to the .30-.30s

For the people who feel that a .308 is plenty for any NA big game...ummm...have you ever BEEN to the West coast?? You will NOT be doing yourself any favours if you shoot a pissed-off Alaskan Brown Bear with a .308. Like a doped-up Vietnamese sapper with a satchel charge running full speed towards the bridge you are guarding, shooting a grizz with a .308 is gonna be like shooting Charlie with a 5.56. They are often gonna keep coming.

Of COURSE shot placement is everything (with less powerful calibers) and I saw an OLD documentary where an Eskimo hunted Polar bears with a .22 and would pile them up with a single shot...at the bears' ASSES!!! Iirc he knew exactly where to hit the huge bear that would instantly immobilize him. RIGHT IN THE SPINE.
However, for the rest of us I would highly recommend AGAINST polar bear hunting with a .22. Even if it WAS legal.

I lived on the coast for just about 20 years and spent quite a bit of time in the bush. I've never really been a super fast, flat shooting, tiny projectile.
I've shot just about everything on 4 legs that walks West of the rockies. Deer (whitetails, mulies, blacktails AND the TINY Sitka blacktails on the QCI -HG?), moose, black bear, grizzly etc etc..no sheep or goats though and no dogs or cats and no pigs. I've spent time in the bush picking shrooms too (no no...PINE mushrooms..God).
I would not depend on a .308 for protection in those woods. Actually maybe a .308 WOULD be adequate because I've seen bears...even smaller blacks, walk or run right THROUGH a barrage of 12gauge slugs...which is what I usually carried in the woods. Well ok maybe not stroll right through a barrage of 12ga lead as if it was a drizzle of rain but...
In situations when there is a bear...heck even if there are just fresh brown bear TRACKS nearby...well for me anyway...shot placement might not be exactly what I want it to be. It might not present itself with a clear ass shot for my .22 to target.
For me in the BC bush it was always a gauge or my .444 Marlin.
Hey, a .308 might have similar energy as a gauge or .444Marlin...and a .308 really IS nothing to sneeze at.
BUT...
IF I was looking for a Canadian big game caliber (ESPECIALLY Western Canadian big game) a .308 wouldn't even be on my list..unless I wanted a dual purpose gun. One that would be OK for big game hunting but that also doubled as my SHTF 1000m sniper rifle. BUT..for a purely big game bolt action hunting rifle, since the price of the gun would be pretty much identical -but not ammunition of course but it isn't gonna be your fungun anyway- for me personally..and I live in AB now not the W.Coast..we still have some very mean very big bears here- I'd be looking for a .300 WinMag or a .338. I know the .338 is crazy but it will take ANYTHING that walks off it's feet even without perfectly relaxed and nicely placed shot...and...for that long range SHTF sniper rifle...

Idk. I'm probably just being silly. Projectiles have come a LONG way since the last time I was looking at .308s.
For me though, I think of a .308 as kind of a minimum acceptable Canadian big game caliber and a somewhat washed-up military sniper round.
I think there are better calibers that would get ALL those jobs done.

Now, if you live in Ontario (not Ontario Polar Bear country though) a .308 is probably all you're gonna need for the biggest ON moose and they will kill a black bear...eventually lol. Those things can take a lot. They are DEFINITELY at least part cat.
If I was being charged by even just a black bear and there was a rack of 4 or 5 loaded long guns right beside me and one was a .308, one was a .300winmag, one was a 30-06, one was a .270 and the other was a 12gauge...the .308 would be the LAST one I reached for.
If one was a .223 IT would be the one I would NOT grab.

A 6.5 mm (not CM) wildcat...like a 6.5 on a .300 Weatherby Mag...now THAT would do some SERIOUS damage. It's small-ish and FAST and flat and that isn't really my thing but it would probably or maybe? stop that charging grizz in it's tracks?
I still prefer the big heavy lobbers but that's just me.

If you are PURELY moose hunting for not world record Yukon monsters, are going to have plenty of time to place your shot and you aren't reaching-out much past 200 or 300metres then a .308 will be great. Cheap ammunition, not too crazy of recoil so you can re-acquire that target pretty quickly (but you placed that first one so well you wont need a 2nd) etc etc..
But that is a lot of IFs and iften times when hunting, all the stars and planets do NOT perfectly align like that so for me...a .308 is pretty much a no-go for me for big game hunting.
Plus I'm not a wicked shot so I can use all the help I can get ;-)

Well, this is all interesting BUT the Modern Hunter for the time being only comes in the 308 winchester and cartridges based off the 308.

[michaelg]

I saw this cartidge/link in another nutz thread and thought it was worth repeating here since it IS based off of the .308:

45RAPTOR/

Now THIS cartridge has me interested.... I was thinking of buying a 45-70 lever-action of some kind, but not if I could just swap uppers on the MH....

[Kveldulf]

With all the kerfuffel over CM being taken as short for centimetres, how about we agree to shorten Creedmore to CRM?

[Suther]

I saw this cartidge/link in another nutz thread and thought it was worth repeating here since it IS based off of the .308:

45RAPTOR/

Now THIS cartridge has me interested.... I was thinking of buying a 45-70 lever-action of some kind, but not if I could just swap uppers on the MH....

300 grain, 45 caliber bullet at 2000fps? I'll pass. It'll do the job, sure, but Its not anything special over a 45-70 or 444 marlin... Not getting much bullet expansion at those velocities though, especially once your big flat-nosed pistol bullets lose a bunch of velocity after a few yards.

I'd much rather a 338 Federal, pushing 200 grain pills at 2500 fps. If a 338 only expands to 1.5x its original size, its over .50 caliber. If it expands to nearly double its size, like many of the 30cal premium bullets do, we're talking .65 cal or better. Thats a big hole compared to .45. (Im not sure how well 338 bullets expand, but considering some 30cal bullets expand to .70+, a 338 expanding to .50 seems more than doable, right?)

[djt]

Fair enough, if it's what you like then excellent :-D I just caution anyone getting into those reticles unknowingly thinking that it will make all the decisions for them.

Was it a good picture atleast? ;-)

..... Okay , now I'm second guessing my decision for the optic.
What would you suggest knowing the conditions, gun & it's capabilities ?

[dvgunner]

The 6.5 has become so popular in the last 5 years. You can find ammo and reloading components just about anywhere. As far as BC and SD you cant beat the 6.5 160gr. The .308 can't touch that performance. You maybe come close with a 200gr or 220gr load in the .308 but you loose big time in speed. Then turn right around and load 100gr pills for ground hogs prarie dogs and of course the most elusive coyote!
Huraa! for the 6.5.

[ShaunM]

..... Okay , now I'm second guessing my decision for the optic.
What would you suggest knowing the conditions, gun & it's capabilities ?

For something keeping it close and light for hunting, and bearing in mind that I am a major fan of nightforce glass, I'd probably look strongly at their 2.5-10x42 with the MOAR reticle.

I am personally putting an NXS 5.5-22x56 on mine.

[mic1076]

I think a 56 is going to be too big I was thinking of putting my march 8-80-56 on it but now im going with a bushnell elite 6500 4.5-30-50