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Tooling to mill an incomplete lower: $400-1000. Milling a lower from scratch? Hundreds of thousands in tools, bits, taps, knowledge, prototyping, time. It's a hobby project. Give it a break, you guys are more bent on stirring up s**t than most antis I know. I have an RPAL, as well as firearms registered to it. If I wanted to be sneaky, I'd save myself the time and money and buy it on the street like the rest of the criminals do.Originally Posted by MustangFrank
Not trying to be a troll, just saying guys need to be REALLY careful what they post. Trying to make sure the Antis don't have any grist for the mill, and one off the track hobby project could cause more grief than is needed...
I would call that a slight exaggeration. If you have the mill, you probably have the tools etc to go with it. I am guessing you are a machinist and have in depth knowledge of the process. I just am of the opinion that this is more than the average guy can complete without the tools and skills you probably posses and people are fooling themselves if they think they can do it in their garage with a few tools.
I have no problem if they want to drop a few hundred dollars for a custom paper weight. I do know individuals who have created some unbelievable projects with a very old mill, lathe and hand tools. It can be done if you have the skill and desire, where most hobbyists do not. No CNC required. Just because I don't understand it doesn't mean you shouldn't try it. I just don't get it is all.
Kind of reminds me of all the people buying solvent traps to screw on the end of a barrel. Really ? Its legal until you fire a round through it but no one would ever do that on gunnutz.
Well, one could easily purchase a cheap drill press and X-Y vice.. with enough patience you could have a cheap miĺling set up for $400. Unfortunately it would probably still be fairly crude and poorly finished. The more you spend on tools, the more precise they become. Professional CNC mahines cost hundreds of thousands alone, while a decent home mill can run between $2,000 to $15,000. My higher end numbers of manufacturing follow more along the lines of a professional manufacturer that includes employment wages. No one is going to whip out a new design in a week or a month, it takes dedication and time, and as you mentioned, most hobbyists lack one or both. Anyone can buy an RC car.. there are many cheap variants, but a hobbyist will sometimes invest a small fortune into building his own. In fact, drag racing was huge back in highschool. There were many legal events where I lived on closed tracks where racers would go to the lengths of machining their own parts just to make it their baby. You look at the majority of us as criminals instead of people just looking to be more hands on with our pass times.
It does not really matter why people want it , some just want it for fun, I don't think its a cost issue.
Maybe just because
You are correct. You can buy from a U.S. dealer and they will ship to Canada. CBSA doesn't care about it. But hey, you could drive an M1A1 Abrams to the border and all the Canadian authorities would care about is collecting the GST.
However, your statement saying it's legal because it's under $100 is flat out WRONG. These are an ITAR controlled product and require paperwork from BOTH countries to export.
If the Americans authorities catch you exporting these without the proper State Department export permits and an IIC from the Canadian government YOU will be exported to the US to face ITAR charges and will most likely become a temporary resident of the US while serving your sentence.
We go to great lengths to follow all of the needed hoops and hurdles to be able to import parts like these into Canada. Please make sure YOU know the rules and follow them or the consequences may be more severe than you think they will.
As far as what's the difference between 6061 and 7075 ? Well for anyone that knows anything about metal, the difference is HUGE. Why is forging a FAR superior method of manufacturing than machining from billet ? Because it arranges the grain structure into the form strongest for each particular stress on the product despite being at different angles. Beautiful in it's simplicity from a manufacturing standpoint and the reason that forged will ALWAYS be superior to billet.
If you don't believe me then ask yourself this ; "which method do they use to make M4 combat rifles ?" Answer ; 7075 forged, and nothing else.
Leigh
Dlask Arms Corp.
Well you would be incorrect. You have some very good points but the argument in general does not hold water. How much pride is there is doing your own work when it is really only 20% and all you have is a 50.00 saving over a finished restricted lower. Then you have to bolt on all the other parts from a kit or individually to have a finished restricted receiver. Where is the satisfaction in that ? Great, you milled a couple slots and drilled a couple holes. That sir, is why I don't get it. However, if you could finish a non restricted receiver, I'm all in.
How about considering it an entry way into milling? 20% doesn't require you to invest a lot of yourself, or your time into a project. If you mess up, it's not the end of the word.. but who wouldn't want their first milling experience being a firearm they can actually use? The tolerances do allow for enough variances that minor mistakes can be overlooked. Don't think of it as a cheaper way to buy lowers, as it can be double if not triple the price after purchasing a jig and any tools you may need.
Furthermore, it could spark an individual's creativity as their comfort level rises. It may not lead to anything that changes the world, but hey, we may see some new machinists popping out brakes, stock adapters, etc.
80% lowers are big buisness for a reason,,everybody knows it,,and as long as everything stays the same,,,they'll be around for a long long time,,as for 80% lowers covered by ITAR...how can that be,,these things aren't even considered a firearm,,,anybody can buy one,,no license required,,a glorified paper weight,,,,and to these guys saying how DIFFICULT they are to finish,,have probably never done one,,,i have a ton of friends who have done these,,,no sweat,,easy,,,the latest ones are even better and easier to do,,none of them have ruined one yet,,,but i admit there are some people who have ruined some,,but generaly they are people who shouldn't be around powertools to begin with,,LOl..the funny thing is,,,how EXPENSIVE they are here in canada,,,these go anywhere from $50.00 to 100.00 in the US,,there is a nice polymer one with jig available in canada that looks pretty good,,and one of the poster here have a very nice upper/lower kit too,,,although not cheap,,,and not exactly 80% according to some who bought from them,,make sure of what you are buying BEFORE spending your money,
How complete are the Dlask uppers? The reason I ask is that it seems that's the only way to get one here in canada. Even if they aren't a firearm part or whatever CBSA would still see a "80% AR15 lower" on their xray machine and or the packing slip as well as 90% of companies that manufacture them will not ship them or the jigs out of the states. I would gladly buy a lower and jig if I could but they make it incredibly hard to do so
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