I would have to check my targets again but I think the absolute best group at 25 yds off the bench was 3-4 inches and some considerably worse. I will eventually figure it out but its very frustrating. I will attach a red dot to see if I can blame the sights and my eyes. For comparison, my Ron Power PPC .38 groups 1.5-2 inches on the same day with wad cutters so I know I am capable of shooting good groups with the best tools. Amazing trigger and sights on the PPC gun plus custom fitted parts which I was expecting from a custom shop gun. Oh well.