Valmet M-78

[carbonrod]

Maybe, but an unrestricted ''AK'' is always a smile in the face...

A bigger smile then a nonrestricted 858, or Classic Green?

[zZ_denis]

Seriously, I have owned a couple of them. Even if they were priced the same as other 308 semis(m305 with some work), they are not better rifles. Same goes for the 7.62x39. The 858 is a better rifle for what you'll want it for. And 223, Classic Green hammers the m78.

The long heavy barrel, and weak scope mount on the 78 always made them safe queens when I had them.

No sane person would compare a M-78 to the M305 if they owned both at some point. This either means you're insane, or never actually owned "a couple" of M78's. Im leaning towards the later.
I, on the other hand, owned and still own a few of these rifles in different calibers and i can tell you that you cant compare them to the likes of M305 and 858 (which i also own). Its a day and night difference when you look at quality of materials and worksmanship.
Also, M78's are priced similar in the States to M1A's, and Classic Green, so they are not overpriced rifles. You might argue that they are in Canada, but thats our government's fault, not Valmet's.

Can you also enlighten me how exactly a Classic Green "hammers" the M78? How do you even compare a .223 assault rifle to a .308 LMG ? M78 is just as accurate (and yes, optics can be mounted to it just fine), more reliable under all conditions, easier to maintain.



As for copying these rifles in China, its been said a million times on these forums. Its VALMET M78 that is non-restricted, not Norinco (or any other) M78.

[41 Colt]

Well thanks for the help.

They show up on the EE from time to time, for around $4000.

[carbonrod]

No sane person would compare a M-78 to the M305 if they owned both at some point. This either means you're insane, or never actually owned "a couple" of M78's. Im leaning towards the later.

Then you are about to fall over because you are wrong. Here are some pics of two of them(one is a hunter) that I have owned over the years. I can not find pics of the others on this hard drive.

Can you also enlighten me how exactly a Classic Green "hammers" the M78? How do you even compare a .223 assault rifle to a .308 LMG ?
M78 is just as accurate (and yes, optics can be mounted to it just fine), more reliable under all conditions, easier to maintain.

M78 was also made in 223. One of the ones I had (the one in the pic above was in 223). Also, not all m78s were imported as LMGs. Some had shorter barrels.

If you think a m78 is just as accurate, and easy to maintain as a Classic Green, I'd like to know how. CG, you pop two pins, and have at her. M78, you remove the cover, with your optics, and yes, cleaning is easy, but you just lost your zero(if you had one to begin with). In my experience, the CG irons also win over the m78 irons, and I have shot m78s back when they were still new enough for the tritium to work.

I made the comparison between the m78, the 858, the m305, and the CG as these are 3 non-restricted rifles that are in each of the calibers that m78s were imported in(that I know of. I know hunters in other calibers). And from my experience at shoot each of these, the 858, m305, and CGs are as good, or better shoots then the 78 in their respective calibers. I do agree with you that the 78 is better made, and looks better then either the 858, or the m305, however.

If you enjoy m78s, that is cool. They make decent collector relics to an unusual Government decision.

[zZ_denis]

Then you are about to fall over because you are wrong. Here are some pics of two of them(one is a hunter) that I have owned over the years. I can not find pics of the others on this hard drive.

Good looking rifles, however that M78 has a stamped receiver and is not (IMO) the best example of Finnish worksmanship (that is evident on milled M78's)

M78 was also made in 223. One of the ones I had (the one in the pic above was in 223). Also, not all m78s were imported as LMGs. Some had shorter barrels.

I might be wrong, but after doing a rather extensive research on these rifles, i couldnt find any evidence of M78's being produced with a barrel shorter than the standart 23.5". I have seen some pictures of a .308 M78 with a 16" barrel, but it was most likely a custom job. Valmet already had the M-76 in .308 with a shorter barrel (18"), and it would make no sence for them to make a 16" M78.

If you think a m78 is just as accurate, and easy to maintain as a Classic Green, I'd like to know how. CG, you pop two pins, and have at her. M78, you remove the cover, with your optics, and yes, cleaning is easy, but you just lost your zero(if you had one to begin with). In my experience, the CG irons also win over the m78 irons, and I have shot m78s back when they were still new enough for the tritium to work.

I made the comparison between the m78, the 858, the m305, and the CG as these are 3 non-restricted rifles that are in each of the calibers that m78s were imported in(that I know of. I know hunters in other calibers). And from my experience at shoot each of these, the 858, m305, and CGs are as good, or better shoots then the 78 in their respective calibers. I do agree with you that the 78 is better made, and looks better then either the 858, or the m305, however.

If you enjoy m78s, that is cool. They make decent collector relics to an unusual Government decision.

Proper way to mount optics on the M78 would be a siderail attached to the receiver, as seen in M78/83s. M78's were never intended to be used as precision rifles however.. They are LMG's. Yes, they are very accurate, but thats merely a side effect from having a high quality, very heavy 23.5" barrel. Machine guns have heavy barrels to aid in cooling and improve performance under rapid fire, not to be used as sniper rifles.

You cant seriously argue that disassembly/reassembly of the CG is easier than AK. There is a video of a complete field strip of AK in 6 seconds on youtube.

As for irons, sure CG's are better, but you are comparing apples to oranges. If you want to compare apples to apples, look at Valmet M76. M76 wins. I'll go as far as saying that M76 has the best iron sights ever designed for an assault rifle.

Dont get me wrong, im not bashing CG, 858 or M305. All 3 are wonderful rifles, but i wouldnt compare them to M78 for above mentioned reasons. When compared to a Valmet rifle in the same category (M76, or Sako RK92/95), none of the 3 have any real advantages in my opinion.

[carbonrod]

Good looking rifles, however that M78 has a stamped receiver and is not (IMO) the best example of Finnish worksmanship (that is evident on milled M78's)

Agreed. I had a milled 308 m78 at one point as well. From memory, the 308 hunter in the pic above was milled as well, though I could be wrong.

I might be wrong, but after doing a rather extensive research on these rifles, i couldnt find any evidence of M78's being produced with a barrel shorter than the standart 23.5". I have seen some pictures of a .308 M78 with a 16" barrel, but it was most likely a custom job. Valmet already had the M-76 in .308 with a shorter barrel (18"), and it would make no sence for them to make a 16" M78.

Yeah, it shocked me as well when I saw the first one. Then a while back one showed up locally, and after talking to the the owner, it seems that there was a dealer in Canada that imported a handful with shorter, and thinner barrels.

Proper way to mount optics on the M78 would be a siderail attached to the receiver, as seen in M78/83s.

Sure, but now that is gold plated hen's teeth. Would definitely be a nice AK though.

You cant seriously argue that disassembly/reassembly of the CG is easier than AK. There is a video of a complete field strip of AK in 6 seconds on youtube.

If you are talking rifles with optics, sure I can. An AK will take you a while to rezero. IF you can zero it with a receiver cover mount, which most hunter/m78s have. At least those that I have seen with mounts.

As for irons, sure CG's are better, but you are comparing apples to oranges.

All I was doing in the first post is listing a less expensive rifle in each m78 caliber that was as good or better across the board.

If you want to compare apples to apples, look at Valmet M76. M76 wins. I'll go as far as saying that M76 has the best iron sights ever designed for an assault rifle.

I don't know if I'd say that the m76 has the best irons ever designed for an assault rifle. I have heard that about the A3, the M14, etc. But yes, the m76 is barreled nicely, and I'd be all over one if they were not prohib.

Dont get me wrong, im not bashing CG, 858 or M305. All 3 are wonderful rifles, but i wouldnt compare them to M78 for above mentioned reasons. When compared to a Valmet rifle in the same category (M76, or Sako RK92/95), none of the 3 have any real advantages in my opinion.

I chose the CG, 858 and M305 because each also has the coveted nonrestricted title. Given a choice, I'd prefer a m76 as well though.

Finding a set of apples to compare in the semi, non restricted caliber is not easy. I have owned, ad once point or another, many of the options available, and shot most of the rest, and I just can't see m78s being worth anything close to what their owners ask for them in Canada. If you are buying/holding them as collector pieces, that is cool, but if you are buying/holding them as shooters, there are better bangs for the buck.

[TrevorW]

Just give the specs to Norinco and have them pump out a few thousand in .223, .308 and 7.62x39 for civilians in Canada.

and its just that easy isn't it...................It seems to me like alot of people think that Norinco makes rifles just for us or something hahaha!

[rottenfuher]

All I can say is I have a M78 and a Russian RPK CA and would not sell or trade either one of them.

[Wildbore]

As for copying these rifles in China, its been said a million times on these forums. Its VALMET M78 that is non-restricted, not Norinco (or any other) M78.

How hard is it to stamp Valmet instead of Norinco on a product.

[390dakota]

They show up on the EE from time to time, for around $4000.

I don't have the $4000 to spend on that little size shooter. I could purchse a Rem 700 for way cheaper. If I did have the money I would put it towards a Steyr HS50.

I want one for the fact that it is anti-liberal "AK".