Isandlwana - Zulu dawn

[Onthebeep]

Wow, a piece of history that many do not know of these days. Thanks for the pictures and the write up.

Like NavyShooter said, walking across the fields at Vimy Ridge and through the tunnels and trenches that remain, is an experience one does not soon forget.

So many have given their lives for the world to be what it is today, for good or ill. Our grandfathers fought in a terrible war for the freedoms we have now and for the profit and power of other men they never met. If we do not look to the past and learn, we are destined to fail in the same ways.

There are so many stories like this one that need to be passed to the younger generations.

Vimy Ridge was one of those moments, as you walk up the hill to the monument and think it took the Canadian troops 3 days and 20,000 dead (I believe those are the numbers).

You can walk it in five minutes today.

NavyShooter has a tremendous personal connection there, that kind of connection is amazing but has been paid for at a tremendous price.

I'll take my kids there someday.

[Kevan]

This has been a most enjoyable thread to follow !
A huge thanks to you, John and to all who contributed.

[paulz]

I guess I am like most people and thought the disaster at Isandlwana was caused by the British ammo boxes having the lids screwed down and the British ran out of ammo. Certainly that was true, but I believe their widely dispersed formations and complete lack of defensive positions was the real cause of their defeat. If their ammo boxes had been open, it would only have prolonged the afternoon and resulted in more Zulu been killed. It may also have given time for Lord Chelmsford to have returned to the camp, the reserve formation of Zulu (who attacked Rorkes Drift) were capable of ambushing them, this could have doubled the size of the British disaster. Any way you look at it this was not a good afternoon to be in the British army.

I posted this on the Melville/Coghill thread, but worth mentioning again. There is a trend in battlefield studies to do multi-disciplinary archeology. If you can find a copy, I highly recommend you watch the episode of the British TV show Secrets of the Dead that deals with Isandhlwana. I think it is called Dawn of the Zulu.

The show is narrated and writen with input from Ian Knight who is probably the top Znglo-Zulu war expert. They did a bunch of metal detecting and archeology and learned some interesting things.

One of the things they did was to use metal detectors to try and find the main firing line. They reasoned that even after years of souvenir hunters, they should still be able to find anough casings to identify the line.

They were successfull, but found the line much further out than expected, almost out by where the current road is. They also found the tin lids of the famous ammo boxes at the firing line, along with screws bent in a strange way. By way of experiment, they built a replica box copied from an original in a Durban museum, and smashed it open with the butt of a Martini Henry, and discovered that the boxes could be broken open without too much effort and that it bent the retaining screw exactly the same as those they found.

They also did some tests on the Martini-Henry at the National Army Museum in London to determine how fast they would overheat and jam, and they beleive that this, along with the loss of visibility due to the smoke and the eclipse that took place during the battle was a contributing fact.

They concluded, like you, that the dispersion of the firing line prevented an orderly retreat to a more compact formation, and once the line was broken, it was pretty much over.

They also did some neat experiments (using Judoka) on traditional Zulu battle "muthi". First buying it at the local market, then analysing it in a lab, and then actually giving it in a blind test to a couple of competitive Judo practitioners.

Highly, highly recommend this DVD if you can find it.

Last time my brother and I were back in South Africa visiting relatives we made a point of going to Isandhlwana and Rorkes Drift with a good guide. The ground looks way smaller than it does in the movies. It is one thing to see a map of the zulu advance, quite another to walk the ground and imagine the right wing coming around the back of the mountain, and the desperate flight down fugitivres drift.

[Mr Wolverine]

Paulz
Thanks for your input, I must try and find that video. At Isandlwana I was horrified when I saw how widely separated the British positions were, our guide smiled at me, as he knew I had recognized the significance. Once the Zulus got between the British positions any chance of a “last ditch” organized defense was lost. British dead were found all over the battle field, in ones and twos and small groups.

On the other hand the battle for Rorkes Drift was fought over an extremely small area, much smaller than I had expected, but more of that to follow.

[Tomochan]

An outstanding post - thank you for sharing with those of us who are history buffs. Climate, conditions, terrain, troop displacement all played a role in this defeat whereas at Rorkes Drift the factors existed that allowed the British to make use of concentrated fire. I believe RD holds the record for the number of VC's awarded in a single engagement.

[JHC-II]

Morning John,

I have the pleasure of doing this myself in March of next year. What is reality for time lines coming out of JoBurg, am I going to see Rourkes drift, Isunlunda, ladysmith in 48 hours, I realize they are pretty close together but the roads could be the pits and would like to have a good tour and not feel like I am doing speed tourism. I could dedicate a third day to this trip if needed, would like to overnight in Ladysmith as there is supposed to be a good museum there also, I plan on renting a car out of JoBurg. Will a volkswagon rabbit do this trip or should I get a 4x4? cheers

[Mr Wolverine]

Send an e-mail to John@wolverinesupplies.com and I can give you more details, I will look out my journal, be pleased to help.
Joberg to Ladysmith, 4 hrs plus depending how you drive. Pat and I had rented a Hyundai Tucson, a manual two wheel drive with lots of guts, I loved her, I only got three speeding tickets on that leg of our travel. (I out run one, bribed one and have not seen a ticket from the photo trap, as they say “Only in Africa”) The roads are excellent or crap, their dirt roads there are often to rocky to grade. We covered a lot of back roads so I wanted good ground clearance, you will not need 4x4. Don’t travel the back roads at night, we had one incident when we were almost mugged, after that I kept my hunting knife handy. (My rifles were in storage for this part of our trip.)
I would highly recommend taking a guided tour of Isandlwana and Rorkes Drift, our guide was superb, we started at 9 am for the Isandlwana tour, had a 2 hour lunch brake and followed up with the Rorkes Drift tour in the afternoon, all in one day.
If I was you I would take three days, you could drive to Ladysmith and check out their museum in day one. Day two would be Isandlwana and Rorkes Drift. Day three would give you half a day spare (I would highly recommend visiting the tomb of Melville and Coghill) and then you drive back.

[JHC-II]

will indeed send you an email John, apart from the hunting this is also a highlight of my trip, wanted to get a tour but have had problems finding out how to do it. Have been to the rourkes drift tour site and find it difficult to navigate. I feel anyone who is military would appreiciate this tour area, was also concerned about night travel as my rifles will be tucked away in joburg and am plannning to spend my nights in Ladysmith, but if there are accomadations in rourkes or isanlunnda will stay there. Alas I am travelling solo my friends cannot afford the trip. I was just willing to eat mor KD and deer meat than they were to save for this trip, none the less will fire off an email.

cheers

[Garand]

Thanks for the pics, earlier this week I was down with the flu and had the opportunity to watch both movies back to back.

[lister]

Great pics, thanks.
Someday........time and money are the problem in touring these places.