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Thread: Reclassification Status on the BD38 and BD3008?

  1. #211
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    im taking the cash.....and not going to buy a restricted fire arm ever again.........registration leads to confiscation, wake up people!!!!!

  2. #212
    CGN Regular Wanhope's Avatar
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    Annddddd I'm betting no one will challenge this....blah.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanhope View Post
    Annddddd I'm betting no one will challenge this....blah.
    Please explain exactly what you would challenge.

  4. #214
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    Just got the paper work on mine and they are now prohibited and they are offering to buy it.

  5. #215
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    I just got my notice today, thanks RCMP, yesterday I was a law abiding citizen , now i'm a dangerous liability that is in possetion of a prohibited firearm,I followed the rules set out by your masters and you changed the rules, this firearm has not been used in any crime but you have made it very clear Canadians can not be trusted.who would take a 35oo.oo dollar Gun, register it, and then some how obtain full auto parts or even take a hack saw to it to make it full auto its a joke. Oh ya you the RCMP did that. I have no faith in this policy force, they used to be something to be proud of, I feel sic to my stomach

  6. #216
    Canada Ammo - CGN Sponsor CanAm's Avatar
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    I think it is more about not lying down and taking it.

  7. #217
    CGN Regular EMEDiva's Avatar
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    It is now just a bitter, sweet memory. Now lets see how long it takes, to receive our compensation, hmmmm.
    CCFR Member, NFA Member, CSSA Member, CPC Member.
    Arte et Marte
    Wanted. C.A. 12(3) MP38/MP40 and a PPSH41.

  8. #218
    CGN Regular oddball_ted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMEDiva View Post
    It is now just a bitter, sweet memory. Now lets see how long it takes, to receive our compensation, hmmmm.
    So you have Molon Labe as your signature on CGN but you relegate your property to "memory"? Hmm.
    Are you allowed to eat doughnuts private Pyle?

  9. #219
    CGN frequent flyer ghostie's Avatar
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    If there is anyone who has filed a reference hearing under the Firearms Act for a BD38 or BD3008 - or you are considering it and you still have time, especially if you are in British Columbia, I would like you to contact me by PM.

    I'm a lawyer in Vancouver who has been involved in a number of difficult Firearms Act cases, included a similar case involving the revocation of Registration Certificates due to reclassification from restricted to prohibited (T97A, along with CanAm Chris from above, the NFA, and others).

    I don't know if anything can realistically be done in the case of these firearms. Based on what I have heard on this forum it sounds like a very tuff case. However, no one should ever just declare defeat and move on without going through the appropriate steps. This is not a solicitation for paid work by the way. I'm just offering to assist pro bono based on my past experience.

    A couple of important points for BD38/BD30008 owners, based on past experience:
    (1) if this is import to you, don't expect - or wait for - anyone else to do it for you. The battle will be over by the time you take the field;
    (2) do not expect the advocacy groups to bankroll your challenge with lawyers and expert witnesses. These organizations have small memberships, and they do a hell of a job with what they've got, but people do not really donate to these causes in any signifigant way in this country, and the organizations don't have money lying around to litigate cases. If you are going to fight this, you have to think in terms of YOU fighting it... with the volunteer help of other people who give a damn, like myself and many others. No one ever rides in on a white horse and does it for you;
    (3) these cases are expert evidence driven. Early identification of a qualified (gunsmith-type) expert witness is critical for a couple of reasons. (a) If you can't find an expert witness who will credibly get up there in court any say what you need them to say, there is little point in proceeding; (b) get at least a preliminary opinion from an expert who has examined the firearm AS SOON AS POSSIBLE so you know where you stand and can start to formulate a strategy for what you are going to do in court;
    (4) there is a secondary issue (other than, can it be "quickly and readily converted to automatic status") which is, can the government agency classify a firearm and issue a Registration Certificate, only to later change its mind, reclassify the firearm and cancel the Reg.Cert.? I suppose this could be argued again, but it has been tried several times in similar cases and was always rejected as a basis for overturning the cancellation of a Reg.Cert. Even where the courts have found the RMCP/Canada Firearms Program's compliance with the law "questionable", they have still gone along with what they've done and not overturned the cancelation of the Reg.Cert.

    This leads me back to the expert witness issue. You can't fall into the trap of wailing and moaning about the unfairness of it all... hoping that a judge is going to hear that and tear a strip off of the RCMP/CFP. They won't. You need a solid argument based on expert winess testimony which will be believed OVER the expert witness testimony of the RCMP/CFP - because you can take it to the bank that they WILL call a serious credible witness with a long and impressive resume who WILL say that these firearms ARE "quickly and readily convertable to automatic fire". You will need to make a "no B.S. assessment" early on as to whether this has any real chance of flying or not. If you don't have an expert witness that will say these firearms are not quickly and readily convertible, who has a chance of being believed over the government's expert witness, then there is no point to running the hearing.

    BTW, despite what they say, if T97A is anything to go on, RCMP/CFP will continue to offer the compensation right up until the actual hearing, or close to it. The pot may even get a bit sweeter... but it appears that compensation will only come about through court order once the hearing starts (and keep in mind, the Provincial Court judge hearing the reference hearing does NOT have the authority to grant compensation. They can only do what is listed in s. 76 of the Firearms Act). Read over sections 74-76 of the Firearms Act closely. It is a very limited sort of "review" of a decision already made by a statutory decision maker. You are not actually "suing" anybody over anything by launching an s.74 reference hearing.

    Having said all that, my gut instinct is always to "fight", or invite a lot more of this to come down on our heads in the coming years. About three years ago I had a series of meetings with various lawyers, gun industry people in BC, and people from the advocacy groups, and we all agreed at that time that if we don't fight at least some of these battles - with or without the support of the the general gun-buying public - we are going to be seeing a lot more of these reclassifications and revocations in the future. That has already started to come true. The RCMP has also now figured out a new trick to go along with Hasselwander and "variant of a named prohib", which is "wait around for literally years without approving new designs on the grounds that it MIGHT be "Hasselwander" or "variant", and by that time you have made it a complete financial disaster for the importer and they give up... at which point you declare it to be a Hasselwander case (or whatever), and there is no money left on our side to fight anything, and the public has moved on (to the promise of the next new black rifle toy) anyway (see SCAR 16).

    I can't fight these on my own in my "spare time". Like you guys I have to spend most of my time earning a living too, but I will do whatever I can to help if someone wants to take a run at this. The problem is definitely getting worse, not better, as time goes on (the end of the LGR notwithstanding, obviously that was a massive step in the right direction, but in this area of new types of semi-auto version of "military" firearms, we are getting beaten to a pulp. Including the loss of several types of firearms which were legal on the market for a period of years - along with a near halt of new types of these firearms entering the Canadian market).
    Last edited by ghostie; 03-24-2013 at 06:44 AM.

  10. #220
    CGN Regular EMEDiva's Avatar
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    Hi. I do not recall seeing you on the BD38 Owners Forum. So what is your plan of action? Plse PM me if you wish to share, it with me. This was my third time being in this situation. IMI Uzi 1986, MP44 1995, BD38 2013.

    Quote Originally Posted by oddball_ted View Post
    So you have Molon Labe as your signature on CGN but you relegate your property to "memory"? Hmm.
    CCFR Member, NFA Member, CSSA Member, CPC Member.
    Arte et Marte
    Wanted. C.A. 12(3) MP38/MP40 and a PPSH41.

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