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Thread: VZ58 in 7.62x51 is possible if there is enough interest.

  1. #251
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    I'm very interested, what type of magazine would it use?

  2. #252
    CGN Regular Gnorts's Avatar
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    This is the most important. non-restricted all the way please.
    :D

  3. #253
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer Deckard's Avatar
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    I already made a thumbhole Valmet M78 stock. Waiting.
    Listen, and understand. That Liberal is out there. It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse- only fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until your guns are gone.

  4. #254
    CGN Regular Grodz's Avatar
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    I'm very interested in the 7.62x51 version.

    Must be Non-Restricted (18.5-19" barrel).

    Preferably threaded for a muzzle brake (5/8"-24 tpi would allow the greatest variety of aftermarket muzzle brakes; or 14x1mm RH if the standard VZ-58 muzzle brakes work well with that calibre).

    Peep sight at the rear of the receiver.

    Scope rails (side mount for short eye relief scopes, and above the piston for red dots; willing to pay extra for both).

    10-round magazines (AICS would be compatible with the Ruger Gunsite Scout, and bolt-action rifles with AICS DBM; can't be loaded from stripper clips, but that's an acceptable compromise).
    Edit: It seems that M14 magazines aren't all made to the same specifications, which can result in feeding issues (this is the reason quoted by Ruger for using AICS mags in the Gunsite Scout Rifle).

    Folding and fixed stock (willing to pay extra for both).
    Edit: Slightly longer Length-of-Pull (LoP) on the folding stock (my nose touches the sling attachment on my CZ-858; not a problem with 7.62x39mm recoil, but likely an issue with 7.62x51). A rubber butt pad would increase LoP and help absorb the heavier recoil.

    Same ergonomics as the VZ-58/CZ-858.

    Standard VZ-58 pistol grip and forend (compatible with aftermarket upgrades).

    .308 barrel (not .310). 2 MOA accuracy or better.

    $1000-$1200 would be quite reasonable.

    Edit: And please don't write "Tactical" on the receiver. "Sporter" sounds more innocuous , hopefully making it less of a target for potential restrictions in the future.
    Last edited by Grodz; 12-21-2012 at 01:21 PM.
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    In order to improve public safety against violent crime, I propose that we address the root cause of the problem, rather than the symptom.
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  5. #255
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer Deckard's Avatar
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    We have to be careful… The barrel must be 19 inches and then the threading. The barrel length on a FAL is measured in a very creative way from the rear of the flash eliminator. It is sad that we must envision all the tricks they will pull.
    Listen, and understand. That Liberal is out there. It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse- only fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until your guns are gone.

  6. #256
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    All those bells and whistles don't beat Nork M14 for me. I'll pass.
    "The semi-automatic weapons’ menacing looks, coupled with the public’s confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons — anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun — can only increase that chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons." — Josh Sugarmann, 1988

  7. #257
    CGN Regular Grodz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glockenshpiel View Post
    All those bells and whistles don't beat Nork M14 for me. I'll pass.
    I too have a Norc M14, but I haven't used it much since I got my CZ-858 in 7.62x39.

    I prefer the ergonomics of the CZ-858, since I can keep my right hand on the pistol grip, and do all other manipulations with my left hand (mag changes, malfunction clearing, bolt hold-open). It's very similar to the FN in that respect. I just tilt the receiver to the left, so I can access the cocking handle with my left hand (it's at a 45-degree upward angle, and therefore easier to grasp that way, compared to the M14's handle).
    For me, malfunction drills (especially bolt hold-open) are not as intuitive with the M14 (or the AR for that matter).

    The 5-round limitation for M14 mags is fine for hunting (I've never needed more that 1 shot for hunting ), but is a limitation for 3-gun competitions (unless you're very good at mag changes ). Hence my preference for AICS magazines, which are already approved for 10 rounds (being used in bolt-action rifles), and therefore do not require a "pistol" designation like the AR mags.

    The CZ-858 is also quite a bit lighter, and much better balanced (not front-heavy like the M14). It's very easy to do magazine changes and malfunction clearing from the shoulder with a rifle that is not front-heavy.
    The 7.62x51 version will likely be heavier, and have a heavier barrel, but will likely still be lighter and better-balanced than the M14. Note that I don't have the short-barrel version of the M14, so this point may be less of an issue with the shorter model.
    -----------------------------------------------------
    In order to improve public safety against violent crime, I propose that we address the root cause of the problem, rather than the symptom.
    Instead of banning guns, let's ban crime!

  8. #258
    CGN Regular Grodz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deckard View Post
    We have to be careful… The barrel must be 19 inches and then the threading. The barrel length on a FAL is measured in a very creative way from the rear of the flash eliminator. It is sad that we must envision all the tricks they will pull.
    I would agree with a 19-inch barrel, to be on the safe side and keep it Non-Restricted.
    Not too long though (ie. no 22-24" barrel), since it gets quite long with a muzzle brake added.
    -----------------------------------------------------
    In order to improve public safety against violent crime, I propose that we address the root cause of the problem, rather than the symptom.
    Instead of banning guns, let's ban crime!

  9. #259
    CGN frequent flyer SeamusMac's Avatar
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    Well said Grodz.

  10. #260
    CGN Regular celichi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grodz View Post
    I'm very interested in the 7.62x51 version.

    Must be Non-Restricted (18.5-19" barrel).

    Preferably threaded for a muzzle brake (5/8"-24 tpi would allow the greatest variety of aftermarket muzzle brakes; or 14x1mm RH if the standard VZ-58 muzzle brakes work well with that calibre).

    Peep sight at the rear of the receiver.

    Scope rails (side mount for short eye relief scopes, and above the piston for red dots; willing to pay extra for both).

    10-round magazines (AICS would be compatible with the Ruger Gunsite Scout, and bolt-action rifles with AICS DBM; can't be loaded from stripper clips, but that's an acceptable compromise).
    Edit: It seems that M14 magazines aren't all made to the same specifications, which can result in feeding issues (this is the reason quoted by Ruger for using AICS mags in the Gunsite Scout Rifle).

    Folding and fixed stock (willing to pay extra for both).
    Edit: Slightly longer Length-of-Pull (LoP) on the folding stock (my nose touches the sling attachment on my CZ-858; not a problem with 7.62x39mm recoil, but likely an issue with 7.62x51). A rubber butt pad would increase LoP and help absorb the heavier recoil.

    Same ergonomics as the VZ-58/CZ-858.

    Standard VZ-58 pistol grip and forend (compatible with aftermarket upgrades).

    .308 barrel (not .310). 2 MOA accuracy or better.

    $1000-$1200 would be quite reasonable.

    Edit: And please don't write "Tactical" on the receiver. "Sporter" sounds more innocuous , hopefully making it less of a target for potential restrictions in the future.
    ^this, im in for one non restricted, semi-auto, .308 1-1.5 moa

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