New Back Stop

[Simplesam]

Hi JR,

Any updates as to the progress of the renovations or a timeline / eta as to when we can maybe eventually bring our own AR15 ammo instead of having to buy frangible(it gets pretty expensive)?

[jobbass]

+1

can someone explain to me , since I am not getting the proper answer.

Target sport , you can buy frangible, but cannot take with you home (CFO orders)

Kate from ammo supplies sell Frangible, and will ship to your house

So who is right or who is wrong , or partially right or wrong, or maybe I should call the CFO

Hi JR,

Any updates as to the progress of the renovations or a timeline / eta as to when we can maybe eventually bring our own AR15 ammo instead of having to buy frangible(it gets pretty expensive)?

[CarsnGuns]

I am a member at Target and I was in their earlier today.

No ETA on restocking frangible .223 because the backstop renovations will allow use of "normal" ammunition. I'm assuming FMJ ammo that passes the magnet test.

HOWEVER, also no ETA on the backstop renovations being complete and receiving CFO approval. So could be months before I get to shoot my AR15 again...me no likey this.

So I showed the staff the webpage of the Federal frangible ammo for sale from AmmoSupply.ca and they were quite interested. I have seen LEO's at Target Sports feeding their own department issue soft point frangible ammo through their department issued AR15's at the range, for what it's worth. I have also privately purchased frangible .223 and used it at Target before, with permission from staff. However now staff is unsure if I am allowed to bring in outside frangible, and told me to email the GM and ask.

I have sent an email to the General Manager asking if we can buy this stuff and use it at the range in the meantime.

Frangible ammunition is NOT ILLEGAL in Canada. The definition of prohibited ammunition under the law does not include frangible ammunition. Lots of varmint hunting ammunition is in fact "frangible". I can only assume that it is one of those things that gets tricky to import or something. Why Target Sports is under "orders from the CFO" to not sell to the public, I don't know.

I will keep you updated with what I hear back from the GM about using this Federal frangible at the range.

+1

can someone explain to me , since I am not getting the proper answer.

Target sport , you can buy frangible, but cannot take with you home (CFO orders)

Kate from ammo supplies sell Frangible, and will ship to your house

So who is right or who is wrong , or partially right or wrong, or maybe I should call the CFO

[Simplesam]

Any update or reply if we can bring in our own frangible if we can get our hands on it?

[CarsnGuns]

I emailed the general manager on Aug 20th. I have not heard anything back yet. I will update when I get a reply.

[CarsnGuns]

I heard back from the GM of Target Sports.

Right now they are not allowing any frangible on the range. No explanation was given, I have asked why it was okay before but not now while the renovations start.

I can't say I'm very happy with this situation, we pay VERY high membership fees for a "modern, state of the art" facility. Well I'd like a store credit or something if I can't shoot my AR15 for half the year considering that is part of the reason I joined up. There is a range closer to me that is way cheaper but its indoor with no rifles allowed.

[luckey]

As a new member still waiting for CLSC, I agreed with JR's priority assessment on the ventilation because even though some members said that they never had any problem for years, I still see the ROs and some members wearing full RESPIRATORS and masks. Since lead fume/dust is almost invisible and subject to personal sensitivity, it would be too late if you find out there are too high level of lead in your blood during your physical check-up.

Its actually not a simple question. The backstop will take it, it its all of the upgrades like the baffles amd sound proofing that need to be considered as well.

The first priority is new ventilation. This starts over the next couple of months as equipment has been ordered but takes time to be built.

JR

[luckey]

the reason was given by JR in his reply on page 4. see below which I copied & pasted from his post earlier.

The major complaint seems to be in regards to our frangible pricing and use.

Let me be clear about this: Target Sports was built as a PISTOL range and was approved by the CFO for use as such. As a courtesy to our clients, we worked on the CFO and after about 2 years, finally got approval to use frangible ammunition in controlled circumstances. The CFO stated that we had to pre-test the ammo and only let people use ammunition that we have informed the CFO we would be using and provided.

Most of the membership have no use for or desire to use frangible and we are not forcing them to do so. In my opinion, this should have no bearing on whether or not we are a good range. If you are looking for a dedicated rifle range, we are not the place for you. However if you occasionally want to shoot your rifle indoors, for a cost, it is available.

I heard back from the GM of Target Sports.

Right now they are not allowing any frangible on the range. No explanation was given, I have asked why it was okay before but not now while the renovations start.

I can't say I'm very happy with this situation, we pay VERY high membership fees for a "modern, state of the art" facility. Well I'd like a store credit or something if I can't shoot my AR15 for half the year considering that is part of the reason I joined up. There is a range closer to me that is way cheaper but its indoor with no rifles allowed.

[CarsnGuns]

the reason was given by JR in his reply on page 4. see below which I copied & pasted from his post earlier.

No it wasn't. I was looking for an explanation why all of a sudden frangible was not available to purchase and not allowed for use on the range as it has been for the 3yrs I have been a member there. The answer to that which I have received since my post is that due to normal deterioration of the backstop, they did not want to use frangible rifle rounds until the new backstop is installed.

I'm not an expert in the area of ballistics but I have a hard time believing that a 50gr frangible .223 round would have a more devastating effect on the backstop than a 200gr .460 S&W handgun round.

Winchester .223 55gr Ranger Frangible ("supposed" to disintegrate on impact)
Muzzle Velocity: 3150fps
Muzzle Energy: 1212ft. lbs.

Hornady .460 S&W 200gr FTX (supposed to expand and retain weight on impact)
Muzzle Velocity: 2200fps
Muzzle Energy: 2149ft. lbs.

I haven't heard any restrictions on handgun calibers during this renovation. I just can't wrap my head around the situation is all.

[shadowz]

You are correct.
Generally speaking, most rifle calibers have a much higher speed which is the main reason for penetration (or over penetration ) frangibles have less impact on back stops vs certain handgun calibers with FMJ, p+ etc...