To whom it may concern:

[captainamazing]

I'm still waiting for a refund from an affiliate company.
Ice arms refuses to respond, or refund my money for a product that I have not received, and do not want to receive.

If you're interested in making this right, please pm me. I'm quite interested in getting my money back.

I ordered a part from Ice Arms 6 weeks ago and after weeks of trying to get a hold of them they tell me my part is not even in Canada yet. STILL WAITING ON IMPORT PAPERS!!! They had no problem charging my credit card though.

DON'T LIST IT AS "IN STOCK" IF ITS NOT IN STOCK!!!!

My rant is concluded

[CaberTosser]

What I mean to say is that businesses that sell neat stuff are often bogged down with hundreds of emails from people asking questions for no real reason. "Can you make ..." or "How much is ... if I buy ..." It would be impractical to employ someone to sort through and reply to all those emails, when only few sales will result. We're talking a business with three or four employees.

When it comes to telephone etiquette, or lack thereof, I prefer people to phone me over and over again until I answer. That way I don't
need to listen to my voice mail.

But all this nitpicking aside, patience is very important when dealing with small businesses. They often have growing pains to deal with, but will remember the easygoing and loyal customers they have.

Lan.

+1

I few days ago I made an appointment, walked in and Joe removed my canted flashhider for free and he does not know me from Adam.

The "To whom it may concern" thread makes me realize that supporting local manufacturers is something that is my concern. The fact that we have a lower mainland mom and pop shop where the proprietor will give of his own time AND allow me to drool over what his CNC machine is turning out is priceless. I for one am willing to pay a price in patience and $ to be able to press the flesh with the man that actually makes things. Actually, now that I think about it, having the killer deals of Can Ammo, the craftsman of Dlask and M14.ca, and the customer service of Reliable close by is ideal to me. In their own way they each enable me to have far better gun experience than I would have otherwise and for that I am willing to be very patient and forgive perceived weaknesses so that I can benefit from each of their strengths.

Time for me to step off my soapbox. First time I have actually considered that Vancouver may be pretty good place for gun nutz to live.

Wetcoast

While it is entirely possible that both of the quoted individuals are legitimate customers, their respective low post counts sure do bring about images of ShillGate. Sorry to be the one to state out loud what everyone is thinking. Kudo's to the vendor for chiming in, now to wait and bear witness to their follow-through.

[jdman]

uh...wetcoast has been here since 2004....prob fair to say he is not a shill.

[TV-PressPass]

uh...wetcoast has been here since 2004....prob fair to say he is not a shill.

OR, he's a long-con account. Fifth column sleeper shills are being activated!

[WetCoast]

While it is entirely possible that both of the quoted individuals are legitimate customers, their respective low post counts sure do bring about images of ShillGate. Sorry to be the one to state out loud what everyone is thinking. Kudo's to the vendor for chiming in, now to wait and bear witness to their follow-through.

WTF? Show up at Thomas' June M14 clinic and I will show you what a shill looks like up close and in person. Christ.

People behind keyboards say the the stupidest things, myself included at times. Kind of like RIGHT NOW when I had to delete about 3 sentences until I calmed down. I appreciate those like jdman that look for evidence to support or critique their opinion before they publish their comments. We would all be better off if we all did the same before we get in a pissing match.

Sleeper shill... love it.

Wetcoast

[haha49]

Now I spoke with Joe and he doesn't really know how to respond to this thread. He spoke with the person running icearms as he was a partner with it he said he had a fight with him over some things and no longer is associated with ice arms. So they no longer have anything to do with each other anymore as he has cut ties with the company. Joe had a plan to help the company grow and leave at the end of the year when everything was running smooth he has changed his plans and no longer deals with them at all. Joe doesn't like unhappy customers and he really does go above and beyond in helping many people. I'm not even sure he would be ok with me posting this online but I like Joe and he helps allot of people out even when it's not cost beneficial to him to do it. I've seen him make things for disabled shooters simply because they want to enjoy the sport. He has made things for wheel chairs and stuff like that as well because no one else makes it. Sometimes it takes a while for him to get things done and sometimes he forgets about some things it's hard to keep track of everything have to check paperwork make sure invoices are correct and make sure every customer is happy with the work. I've had things wait at Joes shop for longer then normal simply because he was to busy to work on it I even tell Joe if your busy just deal with it later no big deal do what makes you money first. That's the way I look at it if my job takes time and doesn't cost allot and he has another customer paying good money for a rifle I would expect him to help that customer first I've even told him this. (The rifle I brought him was a royal pain in the rear to work with) I find that with many gunsmiths his turn around time is better then allot of them because they all get backed up because there is allot more work to be done then there are gunsmiths to do the work. Someone asked if I worked for Joe I have to say no I don’t work for Joe. I don’t mind helping him out if he needs it as he makes an effort and that’s rare to see in allot of people today. Sometimes things don't work 100 percent out of the box and they need to be broken in or tinkered with I've found 1 rifle he made for me I had to take it apart and put it back together as the bolts were to tight and it had problems but he couldn't of know it would of had problems like that because when he tested it worked fine. When I used it had a problem a part got stuck I took it apart and didn't put it back together as tight and it works just fine now it was a stock problem not a craftsmanship problem. I've had firearms from big manufactures that have had more problems. Sometimes a mistake is made people are only human its how they fix the problem that makes the difference. Now Joe speaks English just fine but he doesn’t write in English very well that’s why he makes his responses simple and quick and when you speak to him it’s a more in depth answer I find he sometimes tells people way to much of what happened and I find him to be very honest about things.

[Pigeonman]

^^^^^^^
Dude, paragraphs.......

[F22_RaptoR]

Now I spoke with Joe and he doesn't really know how to respond to this thread.

He spoke with the person running icearms as he was a partner with it he said he had a fight with him over some things and no longer is associated with ice arms. So they no longer have anything to do with each other anymore as he has cut ties with the company. Joe had a plan to help the company grow and leave at the end of the year when everything was running smooth he has changed his plans and no longer deals with them at all.

Joe doesn't like unhappy customers and he really does go above and beyond in helping many people. I'm not even sure he would be ok with me posting this online but I like Joe and he helps allot of people out even when it's not cost beneficial to him to do it. I've seen him make things for disabled shooters simply because they want to enjoy the sport. He has made things for wheel chairs and stuff like that as well because no one else makes it. Sometimes it takes a while for him to get things done and sometimes he forgets about some things it's hard to keep track of everything have to check paperwork make sure invoices are correct and make sure every customer is happy with the work.

I've had things wait at Joes shop for longer then normal simply because he was to busy to work on it I even tell Joe if your busy just deal with it later no big deal do what makes you money first. That's the way I look at it if my job takes time and doesn't cost allot and he has another customer paying good money for a rifle I would expect him to help that customer first I've even told him this. (The rifle I brought him was a royal pain in the rear to work with) I find that with many gunsmiths his turn around time is better then allot of them because they all get backed up because there is allot more work to be done then there are gunsmiths to do the work.

Someone asked if I worked for Joe I have to say no I don’t work for Joe. I don’t mind helping him out if he needs it as he makes an effort and that’s rare to see in allot of people today. Sometimes things don't work 100 percent out of the box and they need to be broken in or tinkered with I've found 1 rifle he made for me I had to take it apart and put it back together as the bolts were to tight and it had problems but he couldn't of know it would of had problems like that because when he tested it worked fine. When I used it had a problem a part got stuck I took it apart and didn't put it back together as tight and it works just fine now it was a stock problem not a craftsmanship problem. I've had firearms from big manufactures that have had more problems. Sometimes a mistake is made people are only human its how they fix the problem that makes the difference.

Now Joe speaks English just fine but he doesn’t write in English very well that’s why he makes his responses simple and quick and when you speak to him it’s a more in depth answer I find he sometimes tells people way to much of what happened and I find him to be very honest about things.

*Broken up for reading impaired *

Well that definitely brings some light into the situation, I wonder how this situation is going to pan out? Is Ice Arms the same as Dead Zombies, or is Dead Zombies associated with Dlask? The stuff I've purchased (and seen of others) from Dlask has been top notch, so the whole bolt carrier debacle seemed out of line... Hopefully this stuff gets cleared up though.

[mildcustom2]

Now I spoke with Joe and he doesn't really know how to respond to this thread. He spoke with the person running icearms as he was a partner with it he said he had a fight with him over some things and no longer is associated with ice arms. So they no longer have anything to do with each other anymore as he has cut ties with the company. Joe had a plan to help the company grow and leave at the end of the year when everything was running smooth he has changed his plans and no longer deals with them at all. Joe doesn't like unhappy customers and he really does go above and beyond in helping many people. I'm not even sure he would be ok with me posting this online but I like Joe and he helps allot of people out even when it's not cost beneficial to him to do it. I've seen him make things for disabled shooters simply because they want to enjoy the sport. He has made things for wheel chairs and stuff like that as well because no one else makes it. Sometimes it takes a while for him to get things done and sometimes he forgets about some things it's hard to keep track of everything have to check paperwork make sure invoices are correct and make sure every customer is happy with the work. I've had things wait at Joes shop for longer then normal simply because he was to busy to work on it I even tell Joe if your busy just deal with it later no big deal do what makes you money first. That's the way I look at it if my job takes time and doesn't cost allot and he has another customer paying good money for a rifle I would expect him to help that customer first I've even told him this. (The rifle I brought him was a royal pain in the rear to work with) I find that with many gunsmiths his turn around time is better then allot of them because they all get backed up because there is allot more work to be done then there are gunsmiths to do the work. Someone asked if I worked for Joe I have to say no I don’t work for Joe. I don’t mind helping him out if he needs it as he makes an effort and that’s rare to see in allot of people today. Sometimes things don't work 100 percent out of the box and they need to be broken in or tinkered with I've found 1 rifle he made for me I had to take it apart and put it back together as the bolts were to tight and it had problems but he couldn't of know it would of had problems like that because when he tested it worked fine. When I used it had a problem a part got stuck I took it apart and didn't put it back together as tight and it works just fine now it was a stock problem not a craftsmanship problem. I've had firearms from big manufactures that have had more problems. Sometimes a mistake is made people are only human its how they fix the problem that makes the difference. Now Joe speaks English just fine but he doesn’t write in English very well that’s why he makes his responses simple and quick and when you speak to him it’s a more in depth answer I find he sometimes tells people way to much of what happened and I find him to be very honest about things.

Thanx for the explanation that Dlask is no longer associated with Dead Zombies or as it is called now Ice Arms. I think it would be wise for the CGN Admin to suspend this contributing members account until things are formally worked out. Ice Arms aka Dead Zombies is operating under a Dlask username and if Dlask is no longer associated then this is looks quite controversial.

[jdman]

what was the bolt carrier debacle?

edit just read....hmmm...