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Thread: Incredible Stun Baton?

  1. #71
    CGN Regular canadiantbone's Avatar
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    I have file a F.O.I. form & will post the Cst Q findings here as soon as I get it. After I have my Lawyer(neighbour) read the report , I will get his opinion as to how to proceed. Luckily I bought 5 of these things , being down 1 isn't that bad.......I'm still piss off ......... but willing to see how this all plays out.
    move through life quietly , have your stuff ready to go at a moments notice.

  2. #72
    CGN Regular canadiantbone's Avatar
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    So here it is , I'll save you guys all the introduction & get into the muddy stuff.

    Analysis:
    The exhibit was examined in close detail. Its attributes were recorded in the body of this report.

    At first glance. the item exhibited the the general characteristics consistently found with objects that are characterized as a multi-cell battery powered flashlight.

    The item is fashioned entirely of metal. It its present form, it's made from a sufficient amount of weighted metal material that , when used against as intended target or victim could/would effectively deliver the needed momentum and kinetic energy towards an impending object or subject to cause sufficient blunt trauma, injury, or damage.

    The secondary purpose of this analysis was also to determine whether the item falls within the category of a Conductive Energy Weapon (CEW) as defined by the professional standards set out by the technical community as large, private industry, and in accordance with the definitions outline in the criminal Code of Canada.

    The term "conductive energy device" or "CED" is used to refer to the general class if electronic incapacitation devices.

    First and second generation stun systems, commonly referred to as "stun guns," worked by transmitting pulses of electricity to the subject that acted on the sensory nervous system. (the system that carries information from the body to the brain.) These devices worked on the basis of pain compliance * (Taser international)

    At first glance, it appears the main purpose and design of this item is to use it as a flashlight. However, the device now coupled with the ability to transfer electrical impulses, adds to its lethality and ability to both intimidate and harm the intended victim(s) on another level.

    The device is designed with a lanyard/carabiner soo that it can be conveniently carried like a large flashlight. The abilty to conduct energy in the form of electrical impulses adds to its ability to inflict pain or harm on any intended victim.

    Open source research located on several US and Canadian distributors whoe sell this item on the open online market. All distributors market the item for "personal protection" and focus their marketing strategy on the items compact nature, its ease of use, and ability to thwart an impending attack.

    As a flashlight , the device operates normally and provides sufficient lumens to allow someone to see under dark or low light conditions.

    As a weapon, this Stun Flashlight/ "Incredible Stun Baton" appears to be quite effective on two distinct levels:

    a) as a large heavily weighted object, the device could inflict pain if used against human flech, bone or tissue. This item would most likely inflict serious injury and
    harm to an individual; and

    b) secondly , as a Conducted Energy Weapon (CEW), the transfer of an estimated/advertised 1,000,000 volts of conducted energy would cause damage and burns
    to the skin through single layers of clothing if active contact remained in one area for prolonged period of time.

    As a weapon, this stun baton-flashlight could be used in an offensive and defensive manner against an impending attacker/victim.

    Cited Legislation

    1 Criminal Code of Canada Section 92 (2)

    Possession of prohibited weapon, device or ammunition knowing its possession is unauthorized

    (2) Subject to subsection (4), every person commits an offence who possesses a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device, other than a replica firearm, or any prohibited ammunition knowing that the person is not the holder of a licence under which the person may possess it.

    2 Criminal Code of Canada - Section 2 defines a "weapon" as,

    weapon means any thing used, designed to be used or intended for use

    (a) in causing death or injury to any person, or

    (b) for the purpose of threatening or intimidating any person

    and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, includes a firearm and, for the purposes of sections 88, 267 and 272, any thing used, designed to be used or intended for use in binding or tying up a person against their will; (arme)

    3 Criminal Code of Canada Section 84 states that a " Prohibited Weapon" means

    prohibited weapon means

    (a) a knife that has a blade that opens automatically by gravity or centrifugal force or by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to the handle of the knife, or

    (b) any weapon, other than a firearm, that is prescribed to be a prohibited weapon; (arme prohibée)

    4 Criminal Code of Canada (Part III) provides a Former PRohibited Weapons List and Under Former Prohibited Weapons order #3 Conducted energy Weapons are described
    as
    6 Any device that is designed to be capable of injuring, immobilizing or incapacitating a person or an animal by discharging an electrical charge produced by means of the amplification or accumulation of the electrical current generated by a battery, where the device is designed or altered so that the electrical charge may be discharged when the device is of a length of less than 480 mm, and any similar device.

    Conclusion:

    In conclusion, the analysis conducted of exhibit#1 - Stun Flashlight/ "Incredible Stun Baton" clearly revealsthat the item seized by Constable NM is in fact, a conducted weapon as described by the Criminal Code of Canada - Former Prohibited Weapons Order #3.

    It meets all the definitions and criteria set out by the law and the analysis conducted supports all conclusions made in its determination .

    Constable P. Quaglia #326
    Abbotsford Police Department
    Non Firearms Prohibited Weapons Expert.




    somebody please help me ????????? He just said that it conforms with formerly prohib weapons but it's still a prohib weapon ??????WTF ?????
    move through life quietly , have your stuff ready to go at a moments notice.

  3. #73
    Canada Ammo - CGN Sponsor CanAm's Avatar
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    I see nothing in his analysis that leads to a determination of it being a prohibited weapon.

    Frankly, I think he simply did not measure the device and see that it is longer than 480mm.
    Last edited by CanAm; 06-27-2016 at 10:15 PM.

  4. #74
    CGN Regular inthewoods's Avatar
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    How convenient of them to not mention the part that it is over 480mm.

  5. #75
    CGN Ultra frequent flyer geologist's Avatar
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    The analysis by the Abby police reminds me of this old song but you have to substitute the words "Government Authority" for "Love" in the song..............



    Quote Originally Posted by canadiantbone View Post
    So here it is , I'll save you guys all the introduction & get into the muddy stuff.

    Analysis:
    The exhibit was examined in close detail. Its attributes were recorded in the body of this report.

    At first glance. the item exhibited the the general characteristics consistently found with objects that are characterized as a multi-cell battery powered flashlight.

    The item is fashioned entirely of metal. It its present form, it's made from a sufficient amount of weighted metal material that , when used against as intended target or victim could/would effectively deliver the needed momentum and kinetic energy towards an impending object or subject to cause sufficient blunt trauma, injury, or damage.

    The secondary purpose of this analysis was also to determine whether the item falls within the category of a Conductive Energy Weapon (CEW) as defined by the professional standards set out by the technical community as large, private industry, and in accordance with the definitions outline in the criminal Code of Canada.

    The term "conductive energy device" or "CED" is used to refer to the general class if electronic incapacitation devices.

    First and second generation stun systems, commonly referred to as "stun guns," worked by transmitting pulses of electricity to the subject that acted on the sensory nervous system. (the system that carries information from the body to the brain.) These devices worked on the basis of pain compliance * (Taser international)

    At first glance, it appears the main purpose and design of this item is to use it as a flashlight. However, the device now coupled with the ability to transfer electrical impulses, adds to its lethality and ability to both intimidate and harm the intended victim(s) on another level.

    The device is designed with a lanyard/carabiner soo that it can be conveniently carried like a large flashlight. The abilty to conduct energy in the form of electrical impulses adds to its ability to inflict pain or harm on any intended victim.

    Open source research located on several US and Canadian distributors whoe sell this item on the open online market. All distributors market the item for "personal protection" and focus their marketing strategy on the items compact nature, its ease of use, and ability to thwart an impending attack.

    As a flashlight , the device operates normally and provides sufficient lumens to allow someone to see under dark or low light conditions.

    As a weapon, this Stun Flashlight/ "Incredible Stun Baton" appears to be quite effective on two distinct levels:

    a) as a large heavily weighted object, the device could inflict pain if used against human flech, bone or tissue. This item would most likely inflict serious injury and
    harm to an individual; and

    b) secondly , as a Conducted Energy Weapon (CEW), the transfer of an estimated/advertised 1,000,000 volts of conducted energy would cause damage and burns
    to the skin through single layers of clothing if active contact remained in one area for prolonged period of time.

    As a weapon, this stun baton-flashlight could be used in an offensive and defensive manner against an impending attacker/victim.

    Cited Legislation

    1 Criminal Code of Canada Section 92 (2)

    Possession of prohibited weapon, device or ammunition knowing its possession is unauthorized

    (2) Subject to subsection (4), every person commits an offence who possesses a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device, other than a replica firearm, or any prohibited ammunition knowing that the person is not the holder of a licence under which the person may possess it.

    2 Criminal Code of Canada - Section 2 defines a "weapon" as,

    weapon means any thing used, designed to be used or intended for use

    (a) in causing death or injury to any person, or

    (b) for the purpose of threatening or intimidating any person

    and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, includes a firearm and, for the purposes of sections 88, 267 and 272, any thing used, designed to be used or intended for use in binding or tying up a person against their will; (arme)

    3 Criminal Code of Canada Section 84 states that a " Prohibited Weapon" means

    prohibited weapon means

    (a) a knife that has a blade that opens automatically by gravity or centrifugal force or by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to the handle of the knife, or

    (b) any weapon, other than a firearm, that is prescribed to be a prohibited weapon; (arme prohibée)

    4 Criminal Code of Canada (Part III) provides a Former PRohibited Weapons List and Under Former Prohibited Weapons order #3 Conducted energy Weapons are described
    as
    6 Any device that is designed to be capable of injuring, immobilizing or incapacitating a person or an animal by discharging an electrical charge produced by means of the amplification or accumulation of the electrical current generated by a battery, where the device is designed or altered so that the electrical charge may be discharged when the device is of a length of less than 480 mm, and any similar device.

    Conclusion:

    In conclusion, the analysis conducted of exhibit#1 - Stun Flashlight/ "Incredible Stun Baton" clearly revealsthat the item seized by Constable NM is in fact, a conducted weapon as described by the Criminal Code of Canada - Former Prohibited Weapons Order #3.

    It meets all the definitions and criteria set out by the law and the analysis conducted supports all conclusions made in its determination .

    Constable P. Quaglia #326
    Abbotsford Police Department
    Non Firearms Prohibited Weapons Expert.




    somebody please help me ????????? He just said that it conforms with formerly prohib weapons but it's still a prohib weapon ??????WTF ?????
    "Conservation is the mark of a dying civilization. When your technology is not increasing at the same rate as your population growth you are done. Bring on the next contender.".

  6. #76
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    Princess Quaglia should go purchase a tape measure, if he cannot afford one I would be willing to appoint one from my tool box

  7. #77
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    LOL, they basically quoted you the part where it says it's not prohib (>480mm) then say it's prohib. It's like saying that a blue car isn't blue.

    Good luck arguing with those guys. Gonna be as fun as arguing with an inanimate object. For practice, try the nearest asylum, look for a guy tied up in a contention vest and strike a conversation.

    P.S. It's also funny how they keep arguing it's a blunt weapon cause it's a metal object of sufficient weight. In that case, we need to prohibit half the stuff from Home-Depot.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinnyQC View Post
    LOL, they basically quoted you the part where it says it's not prohib (>480mm) then say it's prohib. It's like saying that a blue car isn't blue.

    Good luck arguing with those guys. Gonna be as fun as arguing with an inanimate object. For practice, try the nearest asylum, look for a guy tied up in a contention vest and strike a conversation.

    P.S. It's also funny how they keep arguing it's a blunt weapon cause it's a metal object of sufficient weight. In that case, we need to prohibit half the stuff from Home-Depot.
    No #### ! Can they seize a baseball bat if they see me walking down the street with one going to practice !? Cause technically that falls under the weapons category.
    That's why if the law asks if there's any weapons in the car you answer with NO but I have a utility blade in the glove box. If you answer and say ya there's a knife in the glove box, technically you said yes to the questions of "weapons" in the car

  9. #79
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    And sorry for laughing, but this is funny on so many level if you're not the poor guy who got his toy seized. I mean, just the fact that Abbotsford Police Dept believe they have a "Non Firearms Prohibited Weapons Expert" on the force is funny (unless you give these 1/2 day long seminars any credit, I'd be surprised if the RCMP had more than 1 or 2 of those). I think they messed up his signature, should be Non-Expert in Firearms or Prohibited Weapons.

    Then there's the fact that they consider a cute version of a cattle prod a weapon. Heh, let's arrest every cattle farmer in canada, those guys are obviously criminals. Plus, it's not like we're gonna miss beef, milk or leather.

    Then they just quote you the part that says your particular cattle prod isn't prohibited because it's longer than 480mm, and still call it prohibited.

    On the bright side, your weapon is "conducted". It's got a personnal chauffeur and all. But I guess we should believe a "Non Firearms Prohibited Weapons Expert" who can't make the difference between "conductive" and "conducted".

    Probably not funny to you, but from here, it looks like an Abbot and Costello routine. Or a Francis Veber movie.

    But hey, we live in a world where 2 sticks tied by a rope is a prohibited weapon (nunchaku), so nothing surprises me anymore.

  10. #80
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    Weapons expert probably zapped himself in the dink wondering why this fleshlight was on his desk

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