Cast Bullets
- Thread starter 1899
- Start date
...and you'd be wrong...
let me play you: if you can't explain you have no clue. See? It's easy to just toss words.
Really? Where is the tin going when you "lose" it?
Also please explain how is the melt temperature affecting the bullet weight. The engineer in me wants to know.
So have you dropped hot lead into a cold mould... how did that work out for you? Have you weighed bullets moulded from the top of the pot versus the bottom? Have you fluctuated the heat in the pot and temperature of the mould in the same batch... how did that work?
Give me a break. Noone casts bullets from a cold mold.
If you have no argument please say so.
Please explain how the temperature affects bullet weight.
Hearsay is not evidence.
If you get tired while casting and lose the grip on the mold you may get heavier bullets at the end of the session. But that's not temperature related even though temperature increases as the alloy level decreases.
Correlation is not causation
No need to get pissy about it. People have different experience levels and different priorities. For instance arguing about dumb #### is not one of my priorities.
I have more consistent results when I maintain a controlled temperature. Casting speed is important to me because I can cast faster if I don't let the pot get too hot. I cast 40,000 bullets last year and if I can knock an hour off a casting session that makes me happy. When the pot gets too hot the bullets get frosted and lighter, and they can get skinnier dependant on alloy used. Bullets that are heavier and larger diameter show larger variation than smaller bullets. When the pot gets too cold, the mold cools off and weights can drop again due to poor fill out. BTW, that's NOT hearsay. That's my own observation taken on my own bullets and measured with my own instruments. Maintaining a relatively constant temperature makes relatively consistent bullets. You are probably maintaining a fairly even temperature without even knowing it.
My experience is different than yours but I can see no reason to get snotty about it. If you're happy with your bullets then that's all that matters. Leave it at that.
IME alloys in pots stratify, ladling (dipping and mixing) nets a different result than bottom dropping... IME the temperature of the mould is critical to consistent forming and cooling... IME the temperature of the alloy needs to be consistent in order for proper cooling and consistent forming in the mould...
So, IME temperature is not unimportant as would be suggested by your initial "I strongly disagree" post, which was what inspired these rebuttals. If you are happy with your casting results then you have found a way to control the variables or you are not fussy about your results. I have found maintaining consistent temperature of both the alloy and the mould to be important for me in dropping bullets that I would be willing to shoot on paper, clay, metal and more importantly, on game.
So, IME temperature is not unimportant as would be suggested by your initial "I strongly disagree" post, which was what inspired these rebuttals. If you are happy with your casting results then you have found a way to control the variables or you are not fussy about your results. I have found maintaining consistent temperature of both the alloy and the mould to be important for me in dropping bullets that I would be willing to shoot on paper, clay, metal and more importantly, on game.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Rarely slept in a tent. Under a fly, one can just roll over, sit up, pick up the rifle, and take a look around when things go bump in the night.
Ted
Ted doesn't sleep in nature, nature sleeps around Ted.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
The tin separates from the melt and gets skimmed off with the flux. So technically the tin is going in the bucket next to the melt pot with the rest of the dross. As for the weight, it changes. Sorry I can't explain it to the engineer in you, the the layman in me can only speak from experience. I don't need to know how the clock works to tell the time.
Be careful on oversized projectiles. If your throat is not reamed out to accept larger diameter projectiles they may not feed properly. I had this issue in my custom Ruger #1. I resolved the issue by purchasing a Taper Crimp Die from Lyman. Works great and very accurate. Also a 1/2 to 1 degree taper on the throat does wonders for cast shooting.The bullet is eased into the rifling rather than being slammed.
I think my question may have been missed amongst the other action. What about hardness? I have read that too hard a bullet can shatter if it hits bone. It seems that many folks are suggesting somewhere around 16 BHN . Pure linotype may be too hard while pure lead too soft - correct? I'd be looking at a .30-06 in the 1500-1700fps muzzle velocity and maybe a .45-70 at 1000 to 1300fps. What alloy do you use? Do you heat treat, air cool, water quench? Some tin and antimony makes the bullet harder, right? So then you want to keep some tin in the alloy - ie not burn/skim it off, right?
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
I use water dropped wheel weights for hunting bullets.
Used them in 30-30, 303br, 45-70, 38-40, 44-40, and 44 mag. Penetration has never been an issue.
Used them in 30-30, 303br, 45-70, 38-40, 44-40, and 44 mag. Penetration has never been an issue.
For deer I'd use the softest alloy possible as long as you can get reasonable velocity for the caliber. I made an error (twice!) and used hard cast, about 22+ BHN or harder. Although I did retrieve both deer the exit wound was not as desirable as I'd like. I think 16 is about right, not much harder. I've used 10-14 BHN at velocities between 1400-1600 fps. with a 45 cal and performance was excellent. Small entrance, golf ball exit, perhaps a bit larger. If you want to increase velocity you can do a 2 part cast with 2 alloys. Have your mold (and Wheel Weight alloy) up to temp. Use a 50 cal pure lead muzzle loader ball (175 gr) and melt it in a ladle with a propane torch. This must be VERY hot, it should turn blue/purple. Pour the ball into the mold, drop the ladle and IMMEDIATLY pour in the WW alloy. Now you can heat treat the bullet and you'll end up with a bullet base of about 25 BHN and the nose 8 BHN. The base will harden but the nose won't. When I did this I ended up culling 1/2 of them as they wouldn't all WELD up properly but it didn't matter as I only needed enough for hunting, perhaps 10-12. I tested mine to be sure they grouped the same as the standard ones, never had one fail, grouped the same. I hope this came out OK, it's quite easy to do. Sorry, I should have mentioned, using the 50 cal ball for the nose is for a 35 cal 250gr bullet. You'd have to adjust it for a 30. Best of luck.
...predator defense too...
I am no expert but there are some ideal sites available for assistance.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com
http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/
Also this is an excellent free e-book on casting and a great set of articles.
http://www.lasc.us/IndexBrennan.htm
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
http://www.lasc.us/ArticleIndex.htm
Casting heat (alloy and mould) does affect bullet size. Hotter moulds come from hotter alloy and a fast pace which expands the mould. Alloy alone affects bullet size from similar casting situations. The accepted advice seems to be cast bullets fairly hard (water dropped WW alloy as an example) for larger bore bullets with a wide flat meplat. Smaller cartridges, say under .35, should be expandable. There are techniques published to cast two alloy bullets or soften the nose of hard bullets for the best of both worlds.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com
http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/
Also this is an excellent free e-book on casting and a great set of articles.
http://www.lasc.us/IndexBrennan.htm
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
http://www.lasc.us/ArticleIndex.htm
Casting heat (alloy and mould) does affect bullet size. Hotter moulds come from hotter alloy and a fast pace which expands the mould. Alloy alone affects bullet size from similar casting situations. The accepted advice seems to be cast bullets fairly hard (water dropped WW alloy as an example) for larger bore bullets with a wide flat meplat. Smaller cartridges, say under .35, should be expandable. There are techniques published to cast two alloy bullets or soften the nose of hard bullets for the best of both worlds.
I haven't had much luck with cast bullets in my Marlin 30-30. Is that because of the micro-groove barrel?
It could be that they are not engraving which could be the bore or just an improperly sized bullet... the 165 RN's that I shoot from my 94's are .309" and I have recovered several and observed pretty neat engraving... it could also be the load? I would check the bullet diameter first and insure that you are at least one thousandth over the bore diameter and then play with a couple different loads.
