VG on shotgun - think again!

So someone used an improperly installed crap fore-grip on their shotgun and they injured themselves when it failed? How is this Kel-Tecs problem? Sure sue Promag for their crappy product failing, but it was not any fault of Kel-Tec. Clearly the guys attorney is a retard as "The attorney cites the compact nature of the KSG, and the fact there is nothing on the rail to "prevent the grip from sliding off.". Yes your right, the multitude of slots on the rail provide no measure for preventing stuff from slipping off. The serve no purpose whatsoever and only exist for looks alone. It not like they are designed so that stuff can interface with the slots and prevent attachments from moving.

f:P: So much fail.
 
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KSG
By Lee Williams, Herald-Tribune / Friday, August 8, 2014
An attorney in Virginia preparing a lawsuit that they will likely file against Kel-Tec and ProMag Industries.

It appears that their client was shooting a Kel-Tec KSG equipped with a ProMag "Archangel" polymer forward grip when tragedy occurred.

Keep in mind the KSG is a bullpup 12 gauge, with a total length of only 26 inches.

"The properly installed forward grip slid off the gun rail while the user was ksgpumping the gun, resulting in the user shooting off part of his hand," the attorney wrote on a lawyers-only site.

The attorney was seeking advice and technical experts for the lawsuit. A friend saw the post and sent it to me.

A contact wound with a 12 gauge is devastating. There's no coming back from something like that.

The attorney cites the compact nature of the KSG, and the fact there is nothing on the rail to "prevent the grip from sliding off."

They also noted alleged problems with the forward grip: "Nothing but a polymer nipple secures this grip to the rail -- this nipple partially sheared off during first use."

My thoughts on the KSG are mixed.

I think it's an intriguing design, but it suffers from Kel-Tec's poor quality control.

Some KSGs run like sewing machines, but some shooters have complained about serious, potentially fight-stopping FTEs and FTFs with their KSGs. The model I shot functioned flawlessly, however it was not nearly as smooth as other pump guns.

The polymer rail on the pump concerns me too.

And then there's the price, an MSRP of $990, which equates to about two 870s.

If you shoot one, please be careful.
 
there have been other problems with the rail itself on the KSG. It's really hard to say if the grip is the problem or if the specs on the polymer rail are the problem. Rail fit can vary with metal rails and I would imagine only gets worse when you have polymer mating to polymer. Perhaps the grip would correctly clamp on a metal rail but was a poor fit on the KSG rail resulting in the polymer pin taking all the force. In previous instances there have been cases of the KSG rail breaking off when used with a grip like this and the accident could have happened in that case as well.

That said... the lawsuit is silly but typical for the USA. This could very easily happen on a short barreled 870. You do actually have to pay attention to what you are doing...
 
HAHAHAHAHA WOW! It takes one very special person to shoot their hand off with anything let alone a shotgun! There's just things you shouldn't do... like pulling the trigger when your hand is in front of the muzzle! This dude deserved what he got but it is not a tragedy. It's natural selection. He now has no hand because he didn't know any better.
 
Why was his finger on the bloody trigger while racking the slide.... regardless of failure of rail or grip... nothing would have happened if he didn't pull the trigger.
This smacks of operator error and blame syndrome (not owning up to your own contribution in the accident).
My 2 cents.
S.
 
silen said:
Why was his finger on the bloody trigger while racking the slide.... regardless of failure of rail or grip... nothing would have happened if he didn't pull the trigger.
This smacks of operator error and blame syndrome (not owning up to your own contribution in the accident).
My 2 cents.
S.
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Because he was probably shooting the thing and not just racking the slide for no reason.

If the vertical grip came off suddenly, especially in the middle of a rapid string of fire, there's probably not much you can do.

All short pump shotguns, be they bullpup or conventional, don't give a lot of margin for error as far as hand to muzzle clearance.
 
silen said:
Why was his finger on the bloody trigger while racking the slide.... regardless of failure of rail or grip... nothing would have happened if he didn't pull the trigger.
This smacks of operator error and blame syndrome (not owning up to your own contribution in the accident).
My 2 cents.
S.
Click to expand...

I think it would be safe to assume he was rapid firing the gun, so pumping and shooting as fast as he could. As he slammed the action forward, the grip broke off and his hand slid past the muzzle as he was pulling the trigger. That's my guess.
 
cantom said:
Well, yeah...except that the KSG doesn't nor does anything else made in the last 40 years or so...
Click to expand...

Really? I see some new Norinco shotguns over at marstar that will.

But I doubt anyone doing quick follow up shots takes their finger off the trigger, or totally out of the trigger guard.

At the end of the day it is a lawsuit, name everyone and see where the payday comes from.

They'll name the gun manufacturer, the store that sold it, the maker of the parts added to the gun, the maker of the ammo that shot off part of his hand and the range in which he was shooting.

Everyone except the guy that pulled the trigger.
 
Sad state of the world where you can shoot yourself and somehow convince yourself it was someone else's fault. I'm guessing he didn't have a good sight picture at the time, and was very not very safe about not pointing the gun at something he wasn't willing to destroy, and wasn't shooting in a controlled fashion, while placing absolute trust in a polymer rail and bargain grip. If he'd had a squib doing the same? VFGs on moving parts don't make sense to me.
 
When they first came out people were posting on the forum pics of the rail breaking when trying to put stuff on them.
 
As a 590 and 870 user, the KSG looks like a neat design and although I've never handled one, it looks like its a fragile toy. I'd be scared to cycle it like my 870.
 
rotncore said:
Sad state of the world where you can shoot yourself and somehow convince yourself it was someone else's fault. I'm guessing he didn't have a good sight picture at the time, and was very not very safe about not pointing the gun at something he wasn't willing to destroy, and wasn't shooting in a controlled fashion, while placing absolute trust in a polymer rail and bargain grip. If he'd had a squib doing the same? VFGs on moving parts don't make sense to me.
Click to expand...

VFGs, or at least a substantial hand stop, are a must IMO when you're dealing with a pump where you can easily reach well past the muzzle.
 
Blastattack said:
I think it's an intriguing design, but it suffers from Kel-Tec's poor quality control.
Click to expand...
And that's the crux of the issue. When you have an "innovative" product from a company that lacks the resources and/or technical know-how to properly engineer and beta test it, it can be a recipe for disaster. Imagine Yugo building a nitrogen-powered car...
 
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Buddy was probably shooting it like the guy in the video below...I like how at the 0:41 mark he wriggles his fingers even closer to the muzzle. Yikes. It's not just a KSG problem...any short barrel shotgun--like the 12" Grizzly or the new one that Tactical Imports is bringing in--has this risk. I've got a Magpul handstop on my KSG and even then I don't have the nerve to see if I can dump rounds as fast as I could.

[youtube]cGeYJ_V9Rhs[/youtube]
 
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The bullpup design played the main role in this accident.
This would not have occurred with a VFG on an 18.5" or longer barreled standard shotgun design.
 
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