NEA .300 Blackout feedback/reviews

[Mark-II]

for those that cast, 230gr lee mold (TL309-230-5R 30 ) shoots nice when powder coated like these.

As accurate as any 200+gr i have tried in my 300 blackout (not NEA)

Care to share some load data?

I've shot close to 300 rounds worth of those bullets with no decent result with several powders. I'm working on rl7 now

I've a feeling these tumble lube bullets need sizing, yet may be too small

I know my RCBS .311 sized silhouette bullets would not chamber under any circumstance.

I'm using the cut down military brass that Henry sells. Going to have to make up a batch myself from commercial cases and try the .311 again.

Bout ready to give up on the lee entirely.

 

[f55]

I only shoot these pc (powder coat) the tumble lube ones shoot all over.

The pic i posted was of 1 tumble lube and the black is powder coated.

My pc ones come out around .311 but i size back to .309

I use 12gr A1680 powder.

 

[cr5]

Care to share some load data?

I've shot close to 300 rounds worth of those bullets with no decent result with several powders. I'm working on rl7 now

I've a feeling these tumble lube bullets need sizing, yet may be too small

I know my RCBS .311 sized silhouette bullets would not chamber under any circumstance.

I'm using the cut down military brass that Henry sells. Going to have to make up a batch myself from commercial cases and try the .311 again.

Bout ready to give up on the lee entirely.

I don't shoot those cast bullets but I use 12.4 grains of A1680 with my 208 grain Hornady bullets and they cycle in all three of my 300BLK rifles.

 

[Trinimon]

If factory ammo feeds and extracts fine then the issue is entirely in your reloads. There are three potential issues when it comes to reloading for the BLK.

1. Cases made from cut down 556 can suffer from excessive neck thickness.

2. Headspace from incorrect sizing die setup.

3. Bullets loaded too long causing the bullet to jam in the lands.


The two questions I'd ask you would be how exactly did you determine the leade is too short? By what standard would you judge a barrel to be "a dud?"





It is not possible to "re-ream" the barrel. A chamber reamer is a chamber reamer and running it in deeper isn't going to help but it could well cause excess headspace issues. The difference between a too short and a too long chamber is only .004" so there is not a lot of wiggle room in there. The neck dimension and leade dimension of the reamer are not adjustable and are set by the reamer manufacturer.

If you are reloading, it is a simple thing to adjust your sizing die to produce cases that properly fit the chamber. It is also just as easy to measure the distance to the lands and seat the bullets appropriately to fit the chamber and leade.

It is not possible to know what reamer DD is using without casting the chamber. They could be using something slightly different to accommodate brass made from cut down 556 cases or they could be running a slightly longer chamber by exceeding the NO GO dimension while staying within the FIELD dimension.

Regardless a reloader should always adjust the sizing die to fit the chamber they are loading for. If the chamber is longer then sizing cases down too far will eventually result in separated case heads and potential damage to the rifle. A split or separated case can damage the extractor and jam the bolt in battery.


FWIW I have 300 BLK barrels with chambers produced by three different reamers. One is an old 300-221 wildcat, the other is a Manson 300 BLK and the third is an NEA which I understand is a PT&G reamer. All those widely varying chambers will accept my reloads as well as factory ammo. You need to fire a few rounds and measure the headspace of the fired cases. Then set your sizing die to reduce the headspace by .002 - .003". Next, measure the distance to the lands in your barrel and then seat bullets to .010" shorter. Lastly, make sure the neck OD does not exceed the SAAMI spec. Then if your reloads won't fit the chamber, go complain to NEA. Until then you have no basis upon which to complain.

Yup, you and I have exchanged info on this in the 300BLK reloading thread with regards to the same barrel and I have posted all my measurements which all fall well within the 300BLK SAAMI specs. I've been exchanging emails with Jeff and I've sent him a list of measurements from several different reloads. I'll be sending him my barrel and a few of my reloads to have a look. I was looking to get a hold of a no-go gauge and/or some cerrosafe to check the DD barrel. I don't think the leade is short and the bullets are hitting the lands. More like NEA's specs for the PTG reamer is just made to very very tight tolerances (as in exactly 0.308" and not 0.309" ??) and hence the reason why my bullets are getting stuck in the leade. Another CGNer has tried making reloads for the same barrel and has encountered the same problem as I did.

I was told about wall thickness being an issue with resized 223 cases. I've used Winchester, Remington and Norinco cases. I was told to try using a Lee FC die to help resolve neck sized case issues and it DID help a bit but the bullets still get held up in the leade. Resized cases fall in and out of the barrel with no problems and yes I know a bullet will displace the brass and wall thickness will become an issue after the bullet has been seated. I've even used 300 Whisper cases. All reloads chamber perfectly into a Sheridan gauge and all fire perfectly out of my DD barrel with very good accuracy I might add.

I have gone though measuring to the lands using my Hornady OAL gauge, mind you I have to push the bullets though the leade before you feel it hit the lands. Hard to explain but you can feel it. My bullets are seated behind the lands. The only way to get the bullets to chamber without getting resistance in the leade is to seat them deep enough so the ogive does not hit the leade. The only gun I try to jump the lands for is my bolt gun.

I'm no gun barrel manufacturer by any stretch of the imagination, I just know my measurements are sound and something is out of spec here so I'll leave it in NEA's good hands to decide if I'm wacked out of my head or I have a barrel issue. Hopefully it's the latter.

 

[Suputin]

Yup, you and I have exchanged info on this in the 300BLK reloading thread with regards to the same barrel and I have posted all my measurements which all fall well within the 300BLK SAAMI specs. I've been exchanging emails with Jeff and I've sent him a list of measurements from several different reloads. I'll be sending him my barrel and a few of my reloads to have a look. I was looking to get a hold of a no-go gauge and/or some cerrosafe to check the DD barrel. I don't think the leade is short and the bullets are hitting the lands. More like NEA's specs for the PTG reamer is just made to very very tight tolerances (as in exactly 0.308" and not 0.309" ??) and hence the reason why my bullets are getting stuck in the leade. Another CGNer has tried making reloads for the same barrel and has encountered the same problem as I did.

We have discussed this at length and I can tell you there is no "NEA Spec" on any reamer. They buy reamers from PT&G the same way everyone else does. Other than headspace, the barrel maker cannot adjust any of the dimensions of the chamber so its bait of a head scratcher as to why your barrel won't accept reloads.

 

[Mark-II]

I don't shoot those cast bullets but I use 12.4 grains of A1680 with my 208 grain Hornady bullets and they cycle in all three of my 300BLK rifles.

That's one powder I hear of all the time but no one seems to stick or sell...

I've only tried 5744 and it was rubbish, as was lil gun, 4227, 2400... Seems the only accuracy I get is from loads that don't cycle the gun properly. Factory hornady 110 from sfrc shoot very well, but if I can't make cast work then this is not an upper I will be keeping.

Once I exhaust my reloading variables I could always try rebarreling, I suppose. Maybe I'll ask wolverine about a DD tube....

 

[cr5]

That's one powder I hear of all the time but no one seems to stick or sell...

I've only tried 5744 and it was rubbish, as was lil gun, 4227, 2400... Seems the only accuracy I get is from loads that don't cycle the gun properly. Factory hornady 110 from sfrc shoot very well, but if I can't make cast work then this is not an upper I will be keeping.

Once I exhaust my reloading variables I could always try rebarreling, I suppose. Maybe I'll ask wolverine about a DD tube....

Use H110 for your 110-130gr loads, lil'gun for your 130-165gr loads and A1680 for your heavier bullets. I've also had good luck with A1680 supersonic with 155gr A-max bullets in my non restricted ACR barrel (0.9 moa)
There is some overlap as my 155gr loads show.
This cartridge uses pistol/shotgun powder so you won't have much luck using rifle powders. I'm not familiar with those powders you listed so until I go down to the gun room to check my powder charts I'll guess they are rifle powders and the reason you can't get your gun to cycle.
I've heard from a couple guys that H110 actually works with heavier bullets but my first 300BLK didn't like it with heavier stuff so I haven't tried again. My newer ones might be different.
If I remember correctly H110 is almost identical to W296.

You shouldn't need to but if you do decide to rebarrel PM Suputin. He's built 2 of my barrels and they both look great and shoot well.

Good luck

 

[f55]

Epps is where i had my A1680

My barrel is 9" custom from Suputin with pistol length gas.

You need to make sure your brass is sized correct, i had issues with cycling that tunred out to be sizing issues. I can cycle 210,220,230gr with as little as 11.5gr but bho is assured at 12gr.

I only get accuracy from cast that are pc. When i say accuracy i mean 1" at 50 yards, if that equates to 2-3 moa im very happy. This is a 9" barrel and not intended as a dmr

That's one powder I hear of all the time but no one seems to stick or sell...

I've only tried 5744 and it was rubbish, as was lil gun, 4227, 2400... Seems the only accuracy I get is from loads that don't cycle the gun properly. Factory hornady 110 from sfrc shoot very well, but if I can't make cast work then this is not an upper I will be keeping.

Once I exhaust my reloading variables I could always try rebarreling, I suppose. Maybe I'll ask wolverine about a DD tube....

 

[Trinimon]

We have discussed this at length and I can tell you there is no "NEA Spec" on any reamer. They buy reamers from PT&G the same way everyone else does. Other than headspace, the barrel maker cannot adjust any of the dimensions of the chamber so its bait of a head scratcher as to why your barrel won't accept reloads.

I did some rechecking again last night with my reloads and the barrel etc. Even went as far as using a magnifying glass and a bright flashlight to scrutinize the chamber area. In the right light, I could see some micro ridges running partially down the length of the leade/throat of where the lands were reamed. They must be about 0.0005" or less in height but I'm going to guess that this is what's causing my reloads to get resistance when chambering them. The 208gr AMAX factory ammo I think chambers cleanly because of bullet's long taper and the OGIVE is set way back, closer to the case mouth at 1.454".

I sent the barrel and a few reloads off to NEA for analysis. We'll see what they make of it.

 

[Suputin]

QUOTE=Mark-II;10461080]That's one powder I hear of all the time but no one seems to stick or sell...

I've only tried 5744 and it was rubbish, as was lil gun, 4227, 2400... Seems the only accuracy I get is from loads that don't cycle the gun properly. Factory hornady 110 from sfrc shoot very well, but if I can't make cast work then this is not an upper I will be keeping.

Once I exhaust my reloading variables I could always try rebarreling, I suppose. Maybe I'll ask wolverine about a DD tube....[/QUOTE]

The problem with most factory bbls is that everyone wants to use small gas ports in order to keep bolt velocity down when using full power ammo. If you only intend to use low velocity cast loads then maybe a custom barrel with a larger gas port would be the answer. On my personal bbls I have used a 0.125" gas port and then choked it down with an adjustable gas block to get the amount of gas needed to run my reloads.

Additionally a recoil spring system like the JP captive spring system allows the spring weight to be tuned to the loads. I made my own version of the captive spring system and it really makes shooting low velocity subsonics a pleasure to shoot.

I did some rechecking again last night with my reloads and the barrel etc. Even went as far as using a magnifying glass and a bright flashlight to scrutinize the chamber area. In the right light, I could see some micro ridges running partially down the length of the leade/throat of where the lands were reamed. They must be about 0.0005" or less in height but I'm going to guess that this is what's causing my reloads to get resistance when chambering them. The 208gr AMAX factory ammo I think chambers cleanly because of bullet's long taper and the OGIVE is set way back, closer to the case mouth at 1.454".

I sent the barrel and a few reloads off to NEA for analysis. We'll see what they make of it.

I can tell you that what looks like scratches or ridges in a chamber is usually too fine to even polish out. In fact a completely smooth and shiny chamber is not a good idea. The leade or throat area is usually the roughest part of a chamber because it does not undergo any post ream polishing, Normally shooting will burn off any rough spots but that area will never be nice and smooth.

 

[Trinimon]

I can tell you that what looks like scratches or ridges in a chamber is usually too fine to even polish out. In fact a completely smooth and shiny chamber is not a good idea. The leade or throat area is usually the roughest part of a chamber because it does not undergo any post ream polishing, Normally shooting will burn off any rough spots but that area will never be nice and smooth.

What we have here is a case where I'm holding up a red marker on my end of the keyboard and you're telling me it's blue. I get that you're trying to provide me with info etc and I totally respect and appreciate that, yet you are still leaning towards user error vs any chance of manufacturer's defect. You haven't physically seen the barrel, you haven't compared the dimensions of my reloads to see that they are within SAAMI specs or tried to chamber my reloads in my NEA barrel but you keep hinting that my reloads are suspect and the NEA barrel is not at fault. My cases are to spec and I've even sent a dummy round using a Hornady 300Whisper case to NEA, my bullet seating depth is already short of recommended max by Hornady and Hodgdon's reloading data.

Yes there are different manufacturers of reamers, I get that. NEA is most likely using a different one to DD or other manufacturers, obviously by the looks of things. Yet, if everything was to SAAMI spec, including my ammo, why do I need to push the ammo (some with more force than others) into the NEA barrel's chamber when they fall into and out of my DD barrel easily by their own weight? You probably are right and DD is using the max dimensions for their barrels but I've yet to have a feed failure or lousy accuracy from that DD barrel.

I've discussed my issue with a few others on the 300BLK forum and they all suspect that the barrel is at fault. Something is amiss here and I'm not going continue arguing my case because I don't want this to turn out to be a pissing contest or NEA bashing thread. I'm going to give NEA the benefit of the doubt and wait for their verdict. If they say the barrel is perfect and my reloads are the issue, so be it and an apology from me will be soon to follow.

For reference, here is NEA's barrel with the micro ridges from the lands.

I know DD barrels are chrome lined etc but there are no ridges in my DD 300BLK barrel. It is perfectly clean. Guess that's a bad thing.

 

[Mark-II]

Thanks for the tips, gents.

Has anyone tried plated 110gr M1 carbine bullets for a cheap alternative? Frontier are about $100/1000 as I recall

As to the powders I'm trying for my heavy LEE bullets - they are all in the slow/magnum pistol to fast rifle range. I start on the low side, where I get incomplete cycling and unburnt powder fouling the receiver, and I work my way up to some fairly thumping loads that pattern like a shotgun.

But, as I say, that bullet seems to do "best" at low charge weights.

Reloader 7 has shown some promise, insofar as displaying some consistency group to group. 10gr is the lowest charge that gives complete cycling. I'm going to retest that, and go as high as 13 grains, watching for pressure signs, since I've seen none so far in this cartridge.

I'd be happy with an inch at 50 meters myself. I've a 3x Sparc on the thing and the dot itself doesn't resolve lower than that.

I might just revisit a gas checked bullet. The last time I tried one was when the rifle was new. My .311 sized ones would not chamber (RCBS 165-SIL) no matter how deeply they were seated and the only other size I had was .309, and those leaded up the bolt carrier so badly that I had to hammer open the charging handle when I got home and pick lead plating off the bolt and gas rings!

I've got a .310 sizer now. I'll do up a few and try them one day.

Meanwhile I found a factory crimp die at the store, so I'm laying on a heavy crimp to test to see if I get a better and more consistent burn. With all of the powder getting into the receiver I can only imagine how much must be getting stuck in the gas tube. I soaked that with several shots of Wipe Out and then blew it out with brake cleaner to be certain of it.

I also have some SR4759 that I could play with. That's generally a good fast rifle powder for cast loads

 

[Paulinski]

10.8 gr of AA1680 cycles 220gr SMK / 198gr and 247gr casts in my LMT.

 

[cr5]

Cheap bullets?

http://www.mysticprecision.com/wp/701/bulk-match-and-fmj-bullets/

 

[f55]

I use 150 gr Hornady which I picked up for 25/100 but you will not get cheaper than cast.

 

[Suputin]

What we have here is a case where I'm holding up a red marker on my end of the keyboard and you're telling me it's blue. I get that you're trying to provide me with info etc and I totally respect and appreciate that, yet you are still leaning towards user error vs any chance of manufacturer's defect. You haven't physically seen the barrel, you haven't compared the dimensions of my reloads to see that they are within SAAMI specs or tried to chamber my reloads in my NEA barrel but you keep hinting that my reloads are suspect and the NEA barrel is not at fault. My cases are to spec and I've even sent a dummy round using a Hornady 300Whisper case to NEA, my bullet seating depth is already short of recommended max by Hornady and Hodgdon's reloading data.

Yes there are different manufacturers of reamers, I get that. NEA is most likely using a different one to DD or other manufacturers, obviously by the looks of things. Yet, if everything was to SAAMI spec, including my ammo, why do I need to push the ammo (some with more force than others) into the NEA barrel's chamber when they fall into and out of my DD barrel easily by their own weight? You probably are right and DD is using the max dimensions for their barrels but I've yet to have a feed failure or lousy accuracy from that DD barrel.

I've discussed my issue with a few others on the 300BLK forum and they all suspect that the barrel is at fault. Something is amiss here and I'm not going continue arguing my case because I don't want this to turn out to be a pissing contest or NEA bashing thread. I'm going to give NEA the benefit of the doubt and wait for their verdict. If they say the barrel is perfect and my reloads are the issue, so be it and an apology from me will be soon to follow.

For reference, here is NEA's barrel with the micro ridges from the lands.

I know DD barrels are chrome lined etc but there are no ridges in my DD 300BLK barrel. It is perfectly clean. Guess that's a bad thing.

Actually I wasn't making any suggestion other than that it is fairly normal to see a rough surface on the throat where it meets the lands. A chrome lined bore is an entirely different species and such a comparison is fundamentally incorrect.

With respect to how your ammo fits into the chamber. Personally I adjust my sizing die and bullet seat depth to fit the chamber instead of expecting a chamber to fit my ammo. The entire point and benefit of reloading is that you can make ammo customized to fit the chamber you are working with.

If factory ammo fits and feeds in the chamber fine then I'd be interested to hear the argument to suggest a defective chamber.

IMO this entire thread is a molehill turned into a mountain.

 

[Suputin]

I use 150 gr Hornady which I picked up for 25/100 but you will not get cheaper than cast.

Same here. The big 208's are nice but way too expensive.

 

[mg4201]

We have discussed this at length and I can tell you there is no "NEA Spec" on any reamer. They buy reamers from PT&G the same way everyone else does. Other than headspace, the barrel maker cannot adjust any of the dimensions of the chamber so its bait of a head scratcher as to why your barrel won't accept reloads.

A worn out reamer will cut undersize. A reamer run improperly (too fast too slow or too much feed) will cut oversize. Even a good reamer needs to be run properly in order not to make a hole with a rough finish. Reamers also "follow the hole" meaning if the original hole was cut wrong, at an angle or with a worn drill the reamer will follow it and the chamber wont be straight. There are lots of reasons that the chamber on a barrel could be messed up.

 

[Trinimon]

Just an update on my barrel. I sent the barrel and some of my reloads to NEA on Monday and they had a look at them today. I got an email from NEA's president and have been exchanging info with him the past week. They mounted the barrel and did get the reloads to chamber, mind you manually cycling them wasn't smooth. Was it safe to shoot? Perhaps but I wasn't the only one who was having issues with reloads chambering cleanly in that barrel. NEA's president was quite concerned and was genuinely interested in my findings etc. Today I was surprised when I got a call from him and we spoke for a few minutes and I was surprised at how much he wanted to make sure I was 100% satisfied with my NEA purchase. More testing of my barrel is underway. A resolution is in the works. I figured I'd just send it in and get a replacement and be done with it.

Sorry, if something doesn't seem right, I'm not shooting it based on someone's opinion or endorsement on the internet no matter who they are, period. Paranoid? Perhaps, but sometimes it doesn't pay to take risks like with things that go boom.

 

[Mark-II]

I loaded up some dummy 110 grain RN tonight and had to seat them well under OAL in the data (for AR) just to get them to chamber. And I still had to take a hammer to the charging handle to get them out again. The one loaded to spec length left the bullet stuck in the barrel when I beat the carrier loose, and it had gone through a factory crimp die too...

So I'm interested in this too...