308 pressure signs

nah , i've used data on the lyman book saying they are using 39 to 44 g ,but the hornady data say 32 to 43.2. should have gathered more data before reloading. rookie mistake
yes a chrono could be a great chrismas gift to myself!
 
We have a bingo and I would be willing to bet that labrador76 is almost as smart and good looking as I am, did I mention modest too..:evil: (good call labrador76) ;)

I dont know about smart and good looking Ed, but I do pay attention! I actually learned this and several other valuable lessons from you! Go ahead and pat yourself on the back;)
 
What data did you use? Hodgdon gives 41.0 of Varget as the starting load for a 180. (That'd be close enough to 178. 2 grains will not matter.) No way 40 should give you pressure issues. Even with the differences in manuals.
You really don't need bunches of data.
 
IIRC 178gn Amax are quite long, so if you're loading to a COAL of 2.80 they might be sitting pretty deep in the case. Would that reduce case capacity enough to bring the pressure up? Maybe that's why Hornady's manual has a lighter charge range.
 
OP, I just looked up the Hodgdon's on line loading charts and here is what they state:

308 Winchester, 180 grain bullet, Varget powder, minimum load-41 grains, maximum load - 45 grains.

I wouldn't do anything until I got your velocity checked with a chronograph. Instead of you getting near the 2660 it states, you may find you are getting closer to 2300 fps.

And while I am at it, I will say that a minor difference, like ten grains, or so, in case weight in a 308 size case may be a "major" difference on the internet, in real life it is a nothing.
To test this theory with a 243 Winchester, I loaded five Winchester cases which weighed 168 grains each, with 46 grains of H414 and seated a 75 grain HP bullet.

I then loaded five Federal cases, which weighed 180 grains each, with the identical load of 46 grains of H414 and seated the same type 75 grain bullet to the same length as with the Winchester cases.
I then fired each type over a chronograph. According to the theory on here the ones loaded in the Federal cases, which were 12 grains heavier, should have a smaller capacity for powder and thus would have a higher velocity than the cartridges loaded with the lighter Winchester cases.
Here are the results of the test:
Those in the Federal cases, of 180 grain weight, averaged - 3468.
Those in the Winchester cases, of 168 grain weight averaged 3491 fps!
 
Still, run Varget in a 308 case, I don't think you would fit enough in there to reach saami max, can you? Given with high start pressure from a bullet in the lands and too small neck diameter for a given case neck, sure, but I think something else is at work here.....

Depends on the case, some have smaller capacities than others. Combine a smaller capacity case with a deep seated bullet and you have added two good reasons to have higher pressure. I'd be intereseted to see the chrony results.
 
OP, I just looked up the Hodgdon's on line loading charts and here is what they state:

308 Winchester, 180 grain bullet, Varget powder, minimum load-41 grains, maximum load - 45 grains.

I wouldn't do anything until I got your velocity checked with a chronograph. Instead of you getting near the 2660 it states, you may find you are getting closer to 2300 fps.

And while I am at it, I will say that a minor difference, like ten grains, or so, in case weight in a 308 size case may be a "major" difference on the internet, in real life it is a nothing.
To test this theory with a 243 Winchester, I loaded five Winchester cases which weighed 168 grains each, with 46 grains of H414 and seated a 75 grain HP bullet.

I then loaded five Federal cases, which weighed 180 grains each, with the identical load of 46 grains of H414 and seated the same type 75 grain bullet to the same length as with the Winchester cases.
I then fired each type over a chronograph. According to the theory on here the ones loaded in the Federal cases, which were 12 grains heavier, should have a smaller capacity for powder and thus would have a higher velocity than the cartridges loaded with the lighter Winchester cases.
Here are the results of the test:
Those in the Federal cases, of 180 grain weight, averaged - 3468.
Those in the Winchester cases, of 168 grain weight averaged 3491 fps!

Just because the case is heavier does not mean it has smaller capacity. There could just be a different mix of metals in the alloy used to form the brass. As mentioned earlier, I agree with you that the OP's chrony results would be interesting. I would also be very interested to see the results of your expirement if it included the case capacity data.
 
Just because the case is heavier does not mean it has smaller capacity. There could just be a different mix of metals in the alloy used to form the brass. As mentioned earlier, I agree with you that the OP's chrony results would be interesting. I would also be very interested to see the results of your expirement if it included the case capacity data.

The cases I used in the experiment are all currently primed, which precludes doing the water test, but I just did a weight test with powder.
I took a Winchester case that weighed 169 grains and a Federal case that weighed 181 grains and set each in a dish. I then filled each to over flowing with a powder funnel and scoop. I then used a piece of paper to level each to the top of the neck.
The powder in the Winchester case weighed 53 grains.
The powder in the Federal case weighed 50 grains,
It looks strange that each powder weight came out in even figures, but I weighed carefully and neither could be change a tenth of a grain.


Edited to correct a typo error;
The powder in the Federal case weighed 51 grains.
 
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The cases I used in the experiment are all currently primed, which precludes doing the water test, but I just did a weight test with powder.
I took a Winchester case that weighed 169 grains and a Federal case that weighed 181 grains and set each in a dish. I then filled each to over flowing with a powder funnel and scoop. I then used a piece of paper to level each to the top of the neck.
The powder in the Winchester case weighed 53 grains.
The powder in the Federal case weighed 50 grains,
It looks strange that each powder weight came out in even figures, but I weighed carefully and neither could be change a tenth of a grain.

See, now that's interesting!
So my only guess now is that you fired the Winchesters first, and then the Federals through a hot BBL. Somehow I doubt it though!

What is your take on the OP's issue?
 
See, now that's interesting!
So my only guess now is that you fired the Winchesters first, and then the Federals through a hot BBL. Somehow I doubt it though!

What is your take on the OP's issue?

Yes, they are written in my notes as the Winchester scores appearing above the Federal group, so that would be the way they were fired.
There are just so many nuances effecting little things regarding reloading and shooting!
 
I might add : when you mesure Oal ... Do you rule out the "plastic tip" , do you mesure from the base to the tip of the bullet without the plastic tip?

OACL is the most meaningless figure in all of reloading and I pay no attention to it, other than checking to see if the cartridge will work through the magazine.
Here is my procedure for seating a bullet and setting the sizing die.
I take an empty that has been fired in the rifle to be loaded and squeeze the neck down a tiny bit, just so a bullet will hold securely in the neck. Then start a bullet of the type you will be loading into the neck.
Bring out your rifle and carefully start to chamber the empty with the bullet sticking out of it. If your rifle is a controlled feed, like a Mauser, take the bolt out and set the empty in the bolt face, behind the extractor. Carefully put the bolt, with the empty sticking out, into the rifle and slowly push the bolt forward and close the bolt handle.
The bullet will hit the rifling and will be pushed back in the case. When the dummy cartridge is removed the bullet will be seated to just touch the lands.
Screw the sizing die into the press. You don't want to crimp for a bolt action rifle, so screw the die down until it comes to within about 1/8 inch of the shell holder, when the handle is full down. Lock the die in that position.
Loosen the lock nut on the centre shaft of the die and turn the bullet adjusting screw well out.
Put your dummy load in the press and push the handle full down. Carefully turn the bullet adjusting screw down until you feel it touch the bullet. Remember, the bullet is not a solid fit in the neck, so be careful not to accidentally move it.
You likely will want the bullet to clear the rifling a bit, to ensure the bolt of your rifle will close. So turn the adjusting screw, maybe half a turn, after it touches the bullet.
Lock the adjusting screw with the lock nut.
Remove the dummy load and check it to see if it will work through the magazine, if desired, and go from there.
If it doesn't take you long to get to the range, or other safe area where it would be OK to shoot, load only one cartridge and take it and your rifle to your safe area and see if it will chamber and the bolt will close fully on it.
If the bolt closes OK, go home and load away.
 
The head spacing in your rifle is perhaps No-Go, if it's a Remington that could be the factor. Lots of Remington rifles are cut out of specs. Check your head spacing with Go and No-Go gage.
 
Thick brass, tight necks,,,

:agree: I shot some S&B 308W match loads in my Savage 112 BR. After firing the brass I found that a bullet would not fit in the case neck, this was prior to resizing. I also found the primer pockets to be tighter than normal.

I have not encountered this with Federal, Winchester or Remington brass. I have 20 of the S&B cases that I will likely scrap.
 
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