.35 caliber Bear Defense Gun

Baikal double rifle in 45/70 with factory 405 gr loads is very tame and carry a lot of knockdown

There's a 16" 358 Winchester barrel for sale in the EE. Just get a savage to screw it on to and have a Smith put a front post on it and a ghost ring set up on the action.
 
I'm packing a P17 with a 35 Whelen barrel on it and a low power scope on it for deer this year. Seven rounds of 35 Whelen in a reliable bolt action should do the trick. Might have to trim the barrel a touch to meet your criteria..... Not sure why the 35 cal prerequisite? I'd think you'd find something more suitable chambered in 45/70, 444, or a heavy pistol cartridge for an up close #### yer pants sort of encounter....
 
That's easy, a Remington M-7 KS in .350 Magnum . . . or a pair of them;) . . .





But just out of curiosity, why the fixation on .35s, when mediums in .338s, .9.3s and .375s as well as .35s are all viable choices for protection guns.
 
The Remmy 7600 choice in .35 whelen has got to be near the top. Pump is fast and that caliber hands out the smack.

Or the same in the 18" barrel version available in 30-06? Handier, lots of oomph with 180 gr bullets and a hair less recoil for the beginning shooter that the OP is looking to have shoot the thing. If you're stuck on .35, Marlin 336's in 35 Remington can be had. I don't consider my Whelen to be a big kicker, but I'm 6'2" and 270 lbs. the Remmy has a fair punch with a little less output on the back end.
 
Rem semi-auto carbine in 35 whelen.

Rem pump carbine in 35 Whelen.

For someone more budget oriented, a short barrelled 9.3mm from Tradex with snappy handloads.

And it's a mistake to underestimate the old and boring 30-06 with heavy handloads for bear defense; the evidence from large agencies is clear that this is a serious bear stopping combination.
 
BLR stainless takedown in 358win? Or an H&R single in 35 Whelen?

Not sure why the .35 cal prerequisite, but a 12g pump with slugs or a 45-70 guide gun would be great.

That would be my choice.



I've just passed this one on to my son in the B.C. central interior. He has more 'chance' for use of it there than I do.
 
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Boomer has it right. A Model Seven in 350RM goes well under 6lbs with open sights. Overall length is very tidy as well with the 20" barrel.
So much hurt in such a little package.
Is it just me or is the 350 enjoying a bit of a revival these last couple weeks?



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Expecting anyone that isn't a shooter to pick it up and use it right away is a technicolour dream that simply isn't going to work out at all well other than by dumb luck. First off will they shoulder it correctly and do they know how to use the sights? I've worked with enough new shooters that have never even played "cowboys and Indians" or "Cops and Robbers" as kids to know that what seems obvious to most of us is simply not ingrained in many folks. Even simply remembering to click off a safety in the panic and adrenaline of an encounter could spell the difference between a story and a hospital stay or a funeral. So if you're taking someone out on a regular basis then take them to the range and put them through the paces of picking up, disengaging any safety and aim then shoot all in a fast manner from the gun resting on the bench. You're still missing the adrenaline shot but it's at least something.

Pump guns? I've RO'ed a lot of newbies that simply tried to pull the trigger a second time after the first shot. They looked dumbfounded until I said "Pump it!". So again for a non shooter I'm going to suggest that any sort of pump, lever or bolt action won't be at all obvious for getting off a second or further shots in a panic without a goodly amount of actual in hand shooting at a range before heading out on the trail. You can TELL them what to do until you're blue in the face. But once that butt stock shakes up their fillings the first time any thought at all of how to make it go "BOOM!" again is gone until the shock wears away. But by that time you or they will be checking out teeth from close up.

All of this means that YOU will need to be the gun holder and the gun user in any situation. And that means it needs to be with you all the time. My own preference for compactness and light weight is a 16" Winchester 1892 clone from Rossi. Right up there but for somewhat more money is a Marlin 1894. Either of these should be in .44Mag so you've got some good takedown power. The Mare's leg with a proper stock would be another option. Same action, just a shorter barrel. The only downside is that after chambering a round in case of need it's difficult to eject it without picking up another. It's possible, just a bit tricky as you have to partially chamber it to get the round up onto the feed rails and then pull it back out and tip it free into your hand. Once you do that you can close the action, lower the hammer and load the live rounds back into the magazine. But it's all a little tricky until you practice.

Either way the rifle you pick out SHOULD be set up with a sling so you can easily carry it where ever you go and whatever you're doing. Anything less isn't going to provide the fast access you require.
 
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The OP mentioned black bears, grizzlies, polar bears, and a canoe . . . in the same sentence. A trip like that isn't the time to learn how to handle a hard kicker, so he and his companion(s) better have it figured out before they leave. The .44 lever gun has some appeal, although I'm not an advocate of chambering a rifle for a pistol cartridge. For the novice with no previous shooting experience, the first exposure to a .30/06 can be too much of a good thing if the loads aren't dialed back a mite. Any manual action can be short stroked by a panicked shooter, and a bolt action with a floor plate can be cleared more easily than a jammed up lever gun. I think a bottle neck cartridge provides smoother feeding than a straight wall cartridge and the bolt action equipped with a ghost ring and post sight can be easily learned and managed. There won't be any more canoe trips on the Seal or South Knife till next summer, so if they buy a rifle now, they've got time to learn how to shoot it.
 
OK I gotta ask why .35 caliber?

Because Manitoba lacks the capacity to contain the awesomeness that is the 366 Wagner!

Boomer nailed it though...buy now and play with it all winter. It'll feel like an extension of your arm come portaging season.

A short-barreled Wagner might be just the ticket for such business.
 
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Stopper

;)
OK just speculating here but since we are not allow to carry a sidearm for bear defense, what .35 caliber backpackable rifle would be recommended instead?

I'm thinking it would have to be absolutely dependable, not heavy, not long yet able to kill a bear with authority. Something quick to bear (pardon the pun) and simple to use in a sudden encounter. Please specify caliber/bullet with rifle. I'm not recoil sensitive but if surprised wouldn't want to miss because of recoil/flinching.

Might not be me that has to use it - could be a non shooter that I'm hiking with. Iron sights not scoped. Did I mention simple and straight forward to use...


You didn't provide much information regarding what type of rifle/action you prefer and what sort of budget you had in mind. I would give serious consideration to a good mauser 98 action and install a 20 inch barrel chambered in 35 Whelan. Have the extractor beveled so the bolt WILL close on a round put directly into the chamber. Put it in a synthetic stock and you should be good to go. If you want a clip magazine I suggest you shop for an older Parker Hale 1200 rifle and use that action and clip. If you want to go lighter yet get a Tikka T-3 with a light synth stock and have it re-barreled . These rifles also come with a clip magazine and will be lighter but will cost you a bit more money. Either will be a stopper.
 
Keep em coming please. Again I'm just speculating but with the recent bear attacks in AB and Yukon and my own experience surprising a bear outside a public shower at the beach, I know sh*t happens.

The berry patch scenario did happen. Years ago an old man was killed by a black bear while picking berries here in MB. A couple or so years back they had bears show up on a very busy beach. Right near the kids play structure.

I now carry slugs while grouse hunting.


I see you share my respect for bears! I used to be stupid and venture out on the forest trails in an open sxs ATV with my two dogs and no firearm. Luckily we were in my Jeep one day and saw a bear. My dogs went nuts and it was a good thing they couldn't jump out of the Jeep. After that, we only used the Jeep and not the ATV. Good thing, as we started seeing more and more bears. I now carry an 870 12 ga pump with a mag tube extension and my newly acquired Ruger 44mag s/a carbine. Never ever again would we be out there unarmed!
 
The Remington pump action rifle has one major advantage over all other types. The pump action rifle is the only manually operated action which allows the shooter to cycle the rifle without breaking his firing grip. Should a followup shot be required, it can be made faster with the pump, than it can be made than with any other manual action. My experience with the Remington pump is that they tend to be more accurate out of the box than any similarly chambered bolt gun in the same price range, not that mechanical accuracy is a major consideration in this application. If the comparison was made between the pump and the semi-auto against multiple targets, it would be a mistake to assume the semi-auto would engage each target faster, the difference in speed lies more with the individual shooter. The Remington pump has a nice flat profile, it balances well, and additional magazines can be loaded and carried in your pockets or in a pack.

If the pump action proved to be the rifle of choice, I would advise that some small changes are made to the basic rifle. The first consideration should be the butt stock. The M-7600 rifles of recent manufacture seem to be adorned with an unfortunate Monte Carlo profiled stock which has such a high comb that shooting with irons would be impractical unless they were somehow mounted very high above the bore. In wood , the comb can be reconfigured, but the plastic one is a problem and should probably be replaced with something more suitable. The older classic style wood stock has the correct profile and comb height for shooting with iron sights, and its easier to correct the length of pull of a wood stock than a plastic stock. That is the stock that should be on this rifle. The open sights should be changed to a ghost ring and post, which are both faster and provide greater precision than an open rear sight with a bead front. The rifle should have a simple 1" or 1.25" sling attached to it.

My person prejudice lies with a bolt gun, but only certain bolt guns. There are many other viable options provided you stay within the parameters of a major caliber, in an iron-sighted, light weight, short, repeating rifle. Should the lever action be more to you liking, the BLR is chambered for modern cartridges, but the M-71 and 1886 Winchesters, although expensive and difficult to find, are chambered for all sorts of big bullet bear killing cartridges, as is the 95 Marlin chambered for .45/70. Both the Browning BAR and the Benelli R-1 can be had in .338 Winchester, if you prefer a semi-auto, and the gas action does mitigate recoil somewhat, but these rifles tend to be expensive, and some folks balk at the idea of an expensive rifle being exposed to the elements of a long wilderness adventure.
 
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For a close range encounter a 30-30 winchester model 94 is all you need. Or a marlin or a 35 Remington, if you're stuck on .35's.
otherwise, as mentioned a Remington 760 or 7600 in any calibre from 270 on up including 300 savage. Having owned both my pick is the winchester. It's lighter, simpler to operate and generally cheaper to to buy. Works great with open sights. Ammo is every where.
Btw if one of your hiking party may be using the gun, I suggest you make sure they have some trigger time before hand.
Of course you should also consider a short barrel double barrel 12 gauge loaded with slugs.
 
For a close range encounter a 30-30 winchester model 94 is all you need. Or a marlin or a 35 Remington, if you're stuck on .35's.
otherwise, as mentioned a Remington 760 or 7600 in any calibre from 270 on up including 300 savage. Having owned both my pick is the winchester. It's lighter, simpler to operate and generally cheaper to to buy. Works great with open sights. Ammo is every where.
Btw if one of your hiking party may be using the gun, I suggest you make sure they have some trigger time before hand.
Of course you should also consider a short barrel double barrel 12 gauge loaded with slugs.

Do you understand the implications of the trip that the OP is considering? In a single day he could have contact with all 3 bear species, and although the chances of a problem remain slim, should it happen, I'd want more than the .30/30 could provide. The bulk and weight of shotgun ammunition of an extended wilderness trip is a serious disadvantage, and shotgun shells tarnish and corrode quickly when exposed to the weather.
 
Polar bears and grizzly encounters in northern Manitoba on a canoe trip?
maybe you know more about such things than I do.
I have never heard of that happening. Have you?


Do you understand the implications of the trip that the OP is considering? In a single day he could have contact with all 3 bear species, and although the chances of a problem remain slim, should it happen, I'd want more than the .30/30 could provide. The bulk and weight of shotgun ammunition of an extended wilderness trip is a serious disadvantage, and shotgun shells tarnish and corrode quickly when exposed to the weather.
 
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