Winchester's newest addition to the budget family of firearms

SHELL SHUCKER said:
So funny that all the American makers are following Nick Brewster's way of making rifles. Savage won the gun building war back in the late 50's thanks to him. The guy knew the future path of rifle building on a budget, and TA-DA....the rest are finally getting it!:)
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That's Nick Brewer....father of the Savage 340 and 110...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savage_Model_110
 
wasrupzuk said:
? Please explain.
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In 1964 Winchester discontinued what became known as the "Pre 64" Model 70 and replaced it with a significantly cheaper version (they did this with all their rifles but the M70 is more germane to the current discussion). Gone was the hand fitting, cut checkering and CRF extractor replaced by cheaper wood, pressed checkering and a push feed action. Now I've shot a lot of rounds out of post 64 M70s and they can shoot accurately but they lack all of the quality and feel of the Pre64. Winchester eventually smartened up and "reintroduced" the CRF M70 as the M70 Classic. After a short hiatus in the recent oughts Winchester began a partnership with FN and started producing a newer and improveder version of the M70 with a stainless extractor and a different trigger group (which I dislike as compared to the previous trigger but it is far from being an abomination).

Now here we are 50 years after the 1964 redesign and Winchester has come out with another cheaper rifle. Fortunately they haven't discontinued the M70 (yet).

I'll be curious to see what they come up with for my 86th birthday.
 
Curious what this opinion is based on? The pics? The video? Seems that they could have done things a lot different to save a lot of money.


BigUglyMan said:
In 1964 Winchester discontinued what became known as the "Pre 64" Model 70 and replaced it with a significantly cheaper version (they did this with all their rifles but the M70 is more germane to the current discussion). Gone was the hand fitting, cut checkering and CRF extractor replaced by cheaper wood, pressed checkering and a push feed action. Now I've shot a lot of rounds out of post 64 M70s and they can shoot accurately but they lack all of the quality and feel of the Pre64. Winchester eventually smartened up and "reintroduced" the CRF M70 as the M70 Classic. After a short hiatus in the recent oughts Winchester began a partnership with FN and started producing a newer and improveder version of the M70 with a stainless extractor and a different trigger group (which I dislike as compared to the previous trigger but it is far from being an abomination).

Now here we are 50 years after the 1964 redesign and Winchester has come out with another cheaper rifle. Fortunately they haven't discontinued the M70 (yet).

I'll be curious to see what they come up with for my 86th birthday.
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nomad 68 said:
Holy crap....gun snobbery reigns supreme ! Lol
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Some Greybeards fear change, even if it's for the better, lol.

Some also forget that Firearm companies have been working off each other's ideas and design since gunpowder was first invented.

Personally I like what I have seen so far, the price range will be the deal breaker for me.
 
I stopped buying 'budget' hunting rifles long ago... Last one was the Marlin model 30 AS from Canadian Tire in the early nineties. IIRC it was $349 with a 4x scope. It was actually a fine gun for the money, but $349 went a lot farther then :) ... and gun companies made better quality items IMHO

A gun in that price range today would be one I would not buy. But everyone has to start somewhere. Those cheap savage combos come to mind.....eek!
 
I'm not a firearms guru, but it looks like Winchester has discovered that people want more for less. They don't just want it in their cars and home stereos, but in their rifles as well. I find it amusing that people are hung up on making rifles like they did in 1963, but nobody seems super keen on a refrigerator or TV made with 1963 technology.
 
WeatherdoG said:
I find it amusing that people are hung up on making rifles like they did in 1963, but nobody seems super keen on a refrigerator or TV made with 1963 technology.
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Put a pre 64 Winchester model 70 in your hands and compare it to the new "super high tech junk" and tell me what is better. I myself will take the pre 64 every time.

Everyone loves the new disposable market, CGN threads prove that every day. Buy a drill for $19.99 and throw it out when it quits in six months and buy another. That's the way things are headed...

Some folks are happy with a Savage Axis. Have had a few here on my private range and the only thing I could see they were good for would be a fence post, maybe.

I will take quality over quantity every time. Cheap plastic junk is just that, cheap plastic junk. Throwing a cheap Boyds stock on it makes it no better either, just cheap plastic junk in a plywood stock, not a custom rifle like some would love to believe.

Really hope I didn't hurt anyone's sensitive feelings with my post. LOL!
 
WeatherdoG said:
I'm not a firearms guru, but it looks like Winchester has discovered that people want more for less.
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People are not getting "MORE" for less... they are getting "LESS" for less... and many seem fine with that... personally, I like guns and I like to shoot... there is nothing about these new budget rifles that I find attractive... whether from Savage, Ruger, Winchester or anyone else... JMO.
 
Calum said:
That will probably get more use and last longer then the wood and blue clunkers of yesteryear.
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Not a chance. These will be retired or discontinued- possibly broken with no parts available- long before the Brnos and P64 M70s fall out of use.

Those who know me know I'm all for more guns out there and think people should shoot what they want, but don't pretend these are an improvement over old world, Mauser based designs. These are designed for ease of manufacture and economy, nothing more. There is obviously a healthy market for this type of rifle right now... So be it. Whatever it takes to keep people purchasing rifles and ammunition, IMO...
 
Obviously Winchester/Browning has determined the need to undertake introducing this type of rifle. After looking at the advertising there is no doubt it will appeal to the budget minded shooters which is the obvious intended market. This type of rifle does not appeal to me and as long as Winchester continues to offer the M-70 and doesn't allow the bean counters and lawyers to screw that rifle up then I really don't care what other rifles they produce as long as they don't loose there little shirts while doing it thus jeopardizing the remainder of the line up.
 
To me old "world Mauser actions" speaks of mass production often under extreme duress with metallurgy science back then was in the dark ages in comparison to today.

Also what did old gunsmiths and bubbas do with them older "budget rifles" anyway?
Let's see...
Trigger jobs
Replace/modify stocks
Bedding actions etc.
Replace the sights.
Rechamber the rifle.
Cut down and recrown barrels.
Hmmm, lol.

Nostalgia has a place but...
 
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I'm a grey-beard and I own old school and new " plastic " rifles as well . Personally , I don't care how it's made or what it's made of , as long as it shoots . I do find the amount of plagiarism between the big gunmakers a bit depressing though . Considering they're all based on a rifle that brewer designed before I was born ( but after the ice sheets receded ) I honestly don't know how anyone could call these rifles a new design . The production methods are more efficient , which keeps costs down , a good thing . Hopefully the synthetic stock isn't another Tupperware special , you know , the ones that have about 50 threads on YouTube on how to stiffen them up ( along with about 20 threads on how to improve the triggers ) There were cheap and nasty rifles being made 300 yrs ago and they're still making them today . Hopefully , the Winchester won't be one of them , because if they shoot OK , I'll probably buy one .
 
crazy_davey said:
Put a pre 64 Winchester model 70 in your hands and compare it to the new "super high tech junk" and tell me what is better. I myself will take the pre 64 every time.
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Shaddap ye dummy! Everyone knows Pre64s are junk. Dangerous junk.

Send all Pre64s to my attention. Save a noob, send Pre64s to Davey and me.
 
Budget rifles is nothing new 1970's Winchester model 670 $149.00 Remington model 788 $149.00 the early 80's Remington sportsman series . The difference now is everything is plastic
 
struff55 said:
Budget rifles is nothing new 1970's Winchester model 670 $149.00 Remington model 788 $149.00 the early 80's Remington sportsman series . The difference now is everything is plastic
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I worry more about 3 piece pressed together bolts and poor quality control of the metal workings myself.... Like some of the cheapest ones around... eek! No 300 win mag outta those ones for me thanks!!!
 
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