TacticalTeacher
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Georgian Bay, ON
Okay, tacticalteacher here your wannabee goal tender who is waiting for Randy Carlysle to call me up to the Leafs' Lineup just in case Reimer or Bernier get sick or injured...
I'm resting my left knee after pulling or tearing some ligaments/tendons while butterflying in the crease and the ice is doing its thing... Time for a blog or two about accuracy in a Norc and when to call a spade a fzcking shovel.
Disclaimer: I ain't a gunsmith. I cannot charge for any work on people's rifles so I don't work on YOUR guns. What I do is teach (I am a former high school teacher) YOU how to work on YOUR rifle. Somehow I end up helping loads and loads of people on this CGN community forum and that's my way of dodging immortality. What I will do for you is make suggestions regarding the variables causing said problems you bring to my attention, in the hopes of reducing their negative effect; real or perceived. My advice is free and take it for what it's worth. I don't know all there is about this platform and there are many more experts around here and some with very tight shooting M14 rifles. I just wish they would come out and shoot my PR matches here at Base Borden with the ORA. I have not seen a single one this season of 2014. Maybe next season of 2015.
I've had many requests for help about the accuracy journey that ALL of you have taken and are taking right NOW! Many of us start out by purchasing said Norc or Poly with the hopes of making it a budget shooter! Sure, it's a noble goal but when does NO mean, NO? That's just for you Q radio show fans by the "hate fzcker" himself Jian Ghomeshi. Having been a teacher for 30 years, I'm the only granola crunching, Birkenstock clad, socialist weenie in the staff room who believes gun control means using both hands! I listen to CBC just to spout off all the programs and sound like a bleeding heart, hug-a-thug supporting, poetry writer teacher.
Well where do I start? I'm a retired science teacher so I'll yak about the variables;
* barrel (it's chrome lined, don't expect much accuracy, it ain't a Kreiger or Hart or Obermayer or Douglas or Criterion or LRB or Smith)
* bolt (goofy bearing surfaces at best, sometimes even bearing0
* bedding (bedding material won't stick to them plastic stocks or the oily Chu wood flammable HAZMAT stocks)
* cartridges (copper washed or match booolits?)
* primers (light primer strikes on the free floating firing pin affect anything? reliable and consistent ignition?)
* powders and powder burn patterns (some powders favor the M14 semi-auto vibration pattern)
* trigger pull weight (battle rifle... it's heavy, duh?)
* rear sights (they actually work or track or repeatable)
* front sights (tall posts in the 2013 22" barrel versions STILL, can't the high school shop class get it right?)
* flash suppressor (correct dimension? slanted machining?)
* headspace (looser for bolt swapping and zombie invasion ammo, or tighter for chamber support for us match rifle shooters)
* scope mounts(cheap ones don't work, or you just get lucky. Better ones are no guarantee, but likely may work better)
* cheep scopes! here's another journey after being surrounded at Cabelas in Barrie by good and cheap scopes, I got to really play with them)
* Op rod guides - at least I can say, this is a great and crucial upgrade... bear/deer/zombie/truck/quad gun? Save your money
* M14/M1A/ M1 Garand tools - Never a waste of money, this expenditure is always worth it for the journey of learning!
* M14 bolts - some of them bear lugs evenly, some don't- a USGI pattern bolt is no guarantee of tighter headspace, but it sure helps tighten things up
* some M14 lovers have reported back to me about some scope mounts that seem to bring reliable returns like the M14 dot ca mount. Forgive me since I am using an iPhone right now and the keyboard ain't so great
* lots of M14 lovers report back about Smith or Sadlak or Arms or SAI mounts that work reliably and that's a good thing.
* Some M14 folks have gotten away with $35 mounts and cheepy rings and report back to me that they are super stoked and happy. The mounts and rings hold a zero. That's awesome but frankly I get more PM's asking me for help regarding them cheeepy scope mounts more and more and more.
This is a journey. Many of you have undertaken the journey to obtain predictable and consistent manipulation of these variables I listed. That's great but when do you call a spade a fzcking shovel and realize that it's a Norinco or Poly, so sometimes you might have to cut yer losses and leave things be?!
Some people swap the ammo , get good results and let things be.... a moose / deer / bear / zombie/ quad / truck gun
Some people swap the rear sights out and find the rifle shoots better. Good for them
Some people add a scope mount and spend another few $ finding out the mounts are mainly crap out there (except for the expensive ones, but that's no guarantee)
Some people change stocks and realize the groups go to heck or discover the entire rifle is freaking heavy, except the rubber inflatable boat guys around here; I'll tell you that story if you ask at my next clinic... yuk yuk yuk
Some people have reported back to me that they really love the modularity of the Blackfeather or Sage or Vltor for reasons like carrying balance or handling on the deer stand; it's gotta work for YOU and only you. Hey it's your money and your game or hunt.
Some people pursue a lighter trigger, it may help but when you have shztty chinese spec'ed parts, you are wasting yer money
Some people just swap out the Chinese TG and replace with a USGI trigger group for the reliability or geometry.
Some people have glass bedded their Norinco rifles in Boyd's unfinished stocks only to discover that Norinco trigger groups CAN be out of spec so that when they are clamped into place with a pile of tension their goofy geometry causes double firing.
Some people can get away with no doubling after glass bedding since the Norinco trigger groups have hit and miss consistency
Some people pursue a match barrel , but with all the other variables out of control, you still have a fight on your hands. Some still do even after changing stocks
Some people start reloading ammo like the F Class shooters and they trickle each powder load... yeah right, for a Norinco M14
Some people shoot at Yankee Range at CFB Petawawa and surprise the shzt outta me with great groups at 500 yards shooting copper washed Norinco ammo out of their tuned shorty.
Some people start with a SMITH or LRB or M1A or JRA... now that is expensive but at least you are starting out with predictable quality and are MORE Likely (I did not say guaranteed) to achieve success
Even more people are starting out with complete JRA / LRB/ Springfield M1A rifles with the intention of reducing their collections to a few prized rifles of better-than-Norinco reputation. Maybe that's a better thing. What matters is more and more people are involving themselves in this addiction and even more people are helping the newbies. All of us in this super M14 community have something to do with that!
Okay, I need a new ice bag for my knee... will get back to you... I'm on my 4th ice bout tonight and the Leafs trail the Sabres 6-2 in the third...
The Solutions are in Yer Head
* Many folks at my clinics told me it's a bear gun... live with it... tune it more and then go hunting lots and lots
* Many folks at my CQB clinics horse around and shoot it for poops and giggles inside 35m/yards and are pleased
* Many folks at my sniper matches PARK their M14 rifles and bring out their heavy barreled bolt guns
* Other folks keep it as an irons only zombie gun and stock up on ammo (yeah, even that copper washed schtuff I chirped at chalkriver in CFB Petawawa)
* many folks just shoot iron sights and iron AR500 gongs shrouded at their gun clubs
* Many folks have told me that this is their ONLY rifle, that's really cool!
Bottom Line:
Look, it's easier and cheaper to keep things in perspective. It's a battle rifle that costs $400 or $500 and it's a diamond in the rough. At what point are you prepared to leave things be, buy a whack of practice ammo and then come out and shoot competitively? By doing that, it's no longer about the rifle, it's about the shooter or the rifleman.
Folks, it's not about the destination (accuracy) ; it's about the journey (learning and discovering). If all we did was pursue accuracy, we would be too attached and turn delusional, and that's a false truth.
Life's too short to go crazy from delusional attachments!
PS: I shoot an M1A
PPS: I ain't a gunsmith and never said I was/is/am. But I am a competition shooter and ORA Match Director so I can tell you what wins. The only M1A/LRB/Smith/JRA I've ever seen on an ORA Precision Rifle Match is many, many years was a Norc I built with a Douglas Hvy NM barrel back in 2005. It was not even bedded in a fiberglass layer reinforced USGI cherry stock with Leupold Mark4 LR/T 6.5 x 20 x 50mm Mildot and I kept up with all the Remmy M700 P rifles and the like.
I'm resting my left knee after pulling or tearing some ligaments/tendons while butterflying in the crease and the ice is doing its thing... Time for a blog or two about accuracy in a Norc and when to call a spade a fzcking shovel.
Disclaimer: I ain't a gunsmith. I cannot charge for any work on people's rifles so I don't work on YOUR guns. What I do is teach (I am a former high school teacher) YOU how to work on YOUR rifle. Somehow I end up helping loads and loads of people on this CGN community forum and that's my way of dodging immortality. What I will do for you is make suggestions regarding the variables causing said problems you bring to my attention, in the hopes of reducing their negative effect; real or perceived. My advice is free and take it for what it's worth. I don't know all there is about this platform and there are many more experts around here and some with very tight shooting M14 rifles. I just wish they would come out and shoot my PR matches here at Base Borden with the ORA. I have not seen a single one this season of 2014. Maybe next season of 2015.
I've had many requests for help about the accuracy journey that ALL of you have taken and are taking right NOW! Many of us start out by purchasing said Norc or Poly with the hopes of making it a budget shooter! Sure, it's a noble goal but when does NO mean, NO? That's just for you Q radio show fans by the "hate fzcker" himself Jian Ghomeshi. Having been a teacher for 30 years, I'm the only granola crunching, Birkenstock clad, socialist weenie in the staff room who believes gun control means using both hands! I listen to CBC just to spout off all the programs and sound like a bleeding heart, hug-a-thug supporting, poetry writer teacher.
Well where do I start? I'm a retired science teacher so I'll yak about the variables;
* barrel (it's chrome lined, don't expect much accuracy, it ain't a Kreiger or Hart or Obermayer or Douglas or Criterion or LRB or Smith)
* bolt (goofy bearing surfaces at best, sometimes even bearing0
* bedding (bedding material won't stick to them plastic stocks or the oily Chu wood flammable HAZMAT stocks)
* cartridges (copper washed or match booolits?)
* primers (light primer strikes on the free floating firing pin affect anything? reliable and consistent ignition?)
* powders and powder burn patterns (some powders favor the M14 semi-auto vibration pattern)
* trigger pull weight (battle rifle... it's heavy, duh?)
* rear sights (they actually work or track or repeatable)
* front sights (tall posts in the 2013 22" barrel versions STILL, can't the high school shop class get it right?)
* flash suppressor (correct dimension? slanted machining?)
* headspace (looser for bolt swapping and zombie invasion ammo, or tighter for chamber support for us match rifle shooters)
* scope mounts(cheap ones don't work, or you just get lucky. Better ones are no guarantee, but likely may work better)
* cheep scopes! here's another journey after being surrounded at Cabelas in Barrie by good and cheap scopes, I got to really play with them)
* Op rod guides - at least I can say, this is a great and crucial upgrade... bear/deer/zombie/truck/quad gun? Save your money
* M14/M1A/ M1 Garand tools - Never a waste of money, this expenditure is always worth it for the journey of learning!
* M14 bolts - some of them bear lugs evenly, some don't- a USGI pattern bolt is no guarantee of tighter headspace, but it sure helps tighten things up
* some M14 lovers have reported back to me about some scope mounts that seem to bring reliable returns like the M14 dot ca mount. Forgive me since I am using an iPhone right now and the keyboard ain't so great
* lots of M14 lovers report back about Smith or Sadlak or Arms or SAI mounts that work reliably and that's a good thing.
* Some M14 folks have gotten away with $35 mounts and cheepy rings and report back to me that they are super stoked and happy. The mounts and rings hold a zero. That's awesome but frankly I get more PM's asking me for help regarding them cheeepy scope mounts more and more and more.
This is a journey. Many of you have undertaken the journey to obtain predictable and consistent manipulation of these variables I listed. That's great but when do you call a spade a fzcking shovel and realize that it's a Norinco or Poly, so sometimes you might have to cut yer losses and leave things be?!
Some people swap the ammo , get good results and let things be.... a moose / deer / bear / zombie/ quad / truck gun
Some people swap the rear sights out and find the rifle shoots better. Good for them
Some people add a scope mount and spend another few $ finding out the mounts are mainly crap out there (except for the expensive ones, but that's no guarantee)
Some people change stocks and realize the groups go to heck or discover the entire rifle is freaking heavy, except the rubber inflatable boat guys around here; I'll tell you that story if you ask at my next clinic... yuk yuk yuk
Some people have reported back to me that they really love the modularity of the Blackfeather or Sage or Vltor for reasons like carrying balance or handling on the deer stand; it's gotta work for YOU and only you. Hey it's your money and your game or hunt.
Some people pursue a lighter trigger, it may help but when you have shztty chinese spec'ed parts, you are wasting yer money
Some people just swap out the Chinese TG and replace with a USGI trigger group for the reliability or geometry.
Some people have glass bedded their Norinco rifles in Boyd's unfinished stocks only to discover that Norinco trigger groups CAN be out of spec so that when they are clamped into place with a pile of tension their goofy geometry causes double firing.
Some people can get away with no doubling after glass bedding since the Norinco trigger groups have hit and miss consistency
Some people pursue a match barrel , but with all the other variables out of control, you still have a fight on your hands. Some still do even after changing stocks
Some people start reloading ammo like the F Class shooters and they trickle each powder load... yeah right, for a Norinco M14
Some people shoot at Yankee Range at CFB Petawawa and surprise the shzt outta me with great groups at 500 yards shooting copper washed Norinco ammo out of their tuned shorty.
Some people start with a SMITH or LRB or M1A or JRA... now that is expensive but at least you are starting out with predictable quality and are MORE Likely (I did not say guaranteed) to achieve success
Even more people are starting out with complete JRA / LRB/ Springfield M1A rifles with the intention of reducing their collections to a few prized rifles of better-than-Norinco reputation. Maybe that's a better thing. What matters is more and more people are involving themselves in this addiction and even more people are helping the newbies. All of us in this super M14 community have something to do with that!
Okay, I need a new ice bag for my knee... will get back to you... I'm on my 4th ice bout tonight and the Leafs trail the Sabres 6-2 in the third...
The Solutions are in Yer Head
* Many folks at my clinics told me it's a bear gun... live with it... tune it more and then go hunting lots and lots
* Many folks at my CQB clinics horse around and shoot it for poops and giggles inside 35m/yards and are pleased
* Many folks at my sniper matches PARK their M14 rifles and bring out their heavy barreled bolt guns
* Other folks keep it as an irons only zombie gun and stock up on ammo (yeah, even that copper washed schtuff I chirped at chalkriver in CFB Petawawa)
* many folks just shoot iron sights and iron AR500 gongs shrouded at their gun clubs
* Many folks have told me that this is their ONLY rifle, that's really cool!
Bottom Line:
Look, it's easier and cheaper to keep things in perspective. It's a battle rifle that costs $400 or $500 and it's a diamond in the rough. At what point are you prepared to leave things be, buy a whack of practice ammo and then come out and shoot competitively? By doing that, it's no longer about the rifle, it's about the shooter or the rifleman.
Folks, it's not about the destination (accuracy) ; it's about the journey (learning and discovering). If all we did was pursue accuracy, we would be too attached and turn delusional, and that's a false truth.
Life's too short to go crazy from delusional attachments!
PS: I shoot an M1A
PPS: I ain't a gunsmith and never said I was/is/am. But I am a competition shooter and ORA Match Director so I can tell you what wins. The only M1A/LRB/Smith/JRA I've ever seen on an ORA Precision Rifle Match is many, many years was a Norc I built with a Douglas Hvy NM barrel back in 2005. It was not even bedded in a fiberglass layer reinforced USGI cherry stock with Leupold Mark4 LR/T 6.5 x 20 x 50mm Mildot and I kept up with all the Remmy M700 P rifles and the like.
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