The Ultimate North American Hunting Round?

[Gatehouse]

Seriously???? What the....

Just keeping you guys on your toes

Really, we have more animals suited to mid range cartridges like 7RM and the 300s but obviously we are including the bigger stuff, and often a bigger cartridge can do what a smaller one can't but the reverse is not true.

So yes, the 375 Ruger would indeed be a top choice. Although it's trajectory is like a 30-06 and not a 7mm magnum, these days with LRF, ballistic reticles and turrets shooting the NEW KING over 400 yards is not a big problem. So good for up close, good for somewhat distant prairie and mountain animals, good for small stuff and good for big stuff.

Although My favorite rifle remains my Mdl70 in 300WSM that Bill Leeper put together for me, and it would be tough to leave that nice and light rifle behind. The Ruger is about 1.5 lbs heavier I think. If I was going to leave on this NA29 quest tomorrow it would be a tough choice between my 2 favorite hunting rifles.

 

[buckbrushoutdoors]

I mean the full twenty nine, and at minimum a ten slam, which includes big stuff. I mean what the statement thrown around casually all the time "good for anything in North America", should mean. I tracked and killed a large Wood Bison bull for the CO's last year that absorbed a full magazine of 7mm Mag cup and cores, it was an influencing factor, as are all the Pink Mountain Bulls with "pot legs", .30-30 and many other assorted healed bullet wounds found when skinning.

You are fortunate, starting in BC as a resident will cut several hundred grand off the total. I'm contemplating a go at as many North American species as I can, I was just ripped off heavily on what was to be my third (and a piggybacked fourth that was incidentally cancelled) Big Five / dangerous game hunt in Africa. It soured the taste of Africa for me a bit and I'm looking to do what I can here that I haven't done yet. I was hunting the Sierra Madres for birds in Mexico a few weeks ago and that too turned up the interest in all the interesting big game corners we have in North America.

So again, I refer not to the rifle good in one's backyard, but the one you can take anywhere in the continent with zero limitations. The ultimate one stop tool, continent wide, that can carry the title with merit. To me that's a .300 Win Mag, my mind is made just interested in everyone else's take.

Im currently after this as personal goal, id also like to do it before im 30yrs old. Good chance I could have it done this year if Im fortunate enought to draw an antelope tag.

 

[Chago]

308 is not even listed?? Oh that's right 308 is not enough for moose. But the 30/06 which is the exact same bullet with about 100fps faster will kill anything God put on this earth.

 

[Dang]

30/06 for me .Can be had in any configuration of wood or synthetic you like.Effective in the mountains and just as good on the plains.It will not disappoint.

 

[JJ-65]

There is no ultimate cartridge. There are only ultimate shooters. They routinely do what can't be done with whatever rifle is handy.

 

[Ardent]

308 is not even listed?? Oh that's right 308 is not enough for moose. But the 30/06 which is the exact same bullet with about 100fps faster will kill anything God put on this earth.

The limiting factor is far above Moose, twice the size of a good bull roughly. That is why I repeatedly stress it's not what works in your area, but what is fully capable without putting limitations on your hunting range or shot angle wise, continent wide. Something as good for a 450 yard shot in the desert as it is for a 20 yard shot on a Wood Bison or coastal Brown bear in Alaska. Or on Polar Bear for that matter.

 

[sgt.rock]

I always seem to grab my .375 Ruger these days, cause you can always kill the smaller stuff no problem, but for that ONE TIME when a Grizz steps out in front of me, I want some AUTHORITY.

 

[riversrest]

JJ-65, you got a good point there. Here is something for the .300 lovers:

With the 180-grain Barnes X-Bullet at 2,700 fps the .30-06 performs like a .300 magnum with 180-grain lead core bullets at 2,960 fps. At 400 yards, the .30-06 with the 180-grain XBT boat-tail is still moving at 2,076 fps with 1,723 foot-pounds of energy, while the .300 Winchester Magnum with the 180-grain Nosler Partition packs 1,610 foot-pounds.

IMO, this evident ballistic advantage allows the use of more styles of rifles without the recoil of the magnums.

 

[StevieK]

JJ-65, you got a good point there. Here is something for the .300 lovers:

With the 180-grain Barnes X-Bullet at 2,700 fps the .30-06 performs like a .300 magnum with 180-grain lead core bullets at 2,960 fps. At 400 yards, the .30-06 with the 180-grain XBT boat-tail is still moving at 2,076 fps with 1,723 foot-pounds of energy, while the .300 Winchester Magnum with the 180-grain Nosler Partition packs 1,610 foot-pounds.

IMO, this evident ballistic advantage allows the use of more styles of rifles without the recoil of the magnums.

Why is it that people like you seem to compare apples to pears and think that you actually just made a valid comparison? What is the energy at 300 yds when the 300 win mag shoots the same bullet at it's standard or max velocity? I'm sure you could find a handload recipe on the internet for a 130 gr bullet travelling at 1000 fps from a 300 WM and then tell us that a 223 is actually a far superior round because it carries more energy at 100 yds.

 

[Ardent]

JJ-65, you got a good point there. Here is something for the .300 lovers:

With the 180-grain Barnes X-Bullet at 2,700 fps the .30-06 performs like a .300 magnum with 180-grain lead core bullets at 2,960 fps. At 400 yards, the .30-06 with the 180-grain XBT boat-tail is still moving at 2,076 fps with 1,723 foot-pounds of energy, while the .300 Winchester Magnum with the 180-grain Nosler Partition packs 1,610 foot-pounds.

IMO, this evident ballistic advantage allows the use of more styles of rifles without the recoil of the magnums.

Put the same bullet in the .300, and it is still always significantly in the advantage over the .30-06, at all ranges. Mixing bullets in favour of one cartridge and not the other is a bit like claiming your Impala is faster than the Corvette, when the Corvette doesn't have gas in it.

The .300's 200gr accubond arrives at 400 yards with well over 2,300ft-lbs, that is more than significant. It also has less drop, and drift than any comparable -06 load. The .300 will always be in the lead, the only reason to chose the -06 is if you are put off by the .300's recoil and bark (which is very moderate). What we're talking about here is versatility, we all know a Moose at 90 yards doesn't know the difference, however a sheep at 400 or a big bear or bison, well let's leave it at the difference starts to show up pretty well.

 

[riversrest]

I am glad I was able to point out the different possibilities of cartridges giving more room for discussion.

 

[Arctic]

I agree the 180 is a great bullet, but the law requires a minimum of 200 grains for bison and bear here so it doesn't fit the qualifications that Ardent started with! I've downed deer and donkeys in the U.S. with a .17, but that's illegal here!

 

[Chago]

The limiting factor is far above Moose, twice the size of a good bull roughly. That is why I repeatedly stress it's not what works in your area, but what is fully capable without putting limitations on your hunting range or shot angle wise, continent wide. Something as good for a 450 yard shot in the desert as it is for a 20 yard shot on a Wood Bison or coastal Brown bear in Alaska. Or on Polar Bear for that matter.

ok so then why is the 30/06 listed? that extra 100fps makes it all around? If the 308 has no business on this list neither does the 270 or 30/06. Only the magnum calibers have any real difference in energy compared to the 308. Yet the highest picked caliber is 30/06.

 

[jjohnwm]

Again, the fact that the "highest picked caliber" is Justin Bie...uh, sorry, the .30-06...does not in any way prove that it is the best choice, or even a good choice for that matter. While some argue for that choice based on logical deduction and interpretation of the facts (and make a good case), most seem to be stamping their feet and repeating the same thing. "But...but...but I've shot a bunch of deer with the '06, and there was that cow moose back in '99, and Uncle Clem once winged a bear with one, and I've got one somewhere in the closet, so IT MUST BE THE BEST!"

It's impossible to produce an informed, reasoned and intelligent answer to a question until YOU READ THE QUESTION. Ardent is a patient man, as evidenced by the fact that he has repeated, reworded, restated, explained and re-explained the question several times. There are lots of reasons to argue for or against any particular cartridge, but "Everybody else says so!" is not one of the better ones.

 

[hawk-i]

Will a 308 win. work on every species in north america, yes it will..... but with all other things being equal ...... the 30-06 will a wee bit better of a choice over the 308win and the 300WM will be a wee bit better of a choice over the 30-06.

 

[dgradinaru]

ok so then why is the 30/06 listed? that extra 100fps makes it all around? If the 308 has no business on this list neither does the 270 or 30/06. Only the magnum calibers have any real difference in energy compared to the 308. Yet the highest picked caliber is 30/06.

As listed in another post a 200-220gr load can out run the .308 by an extra 200ft, so that makes a diffrence.

 

[Ardent]

ok so then why is the 30/06 listed? that extra 100fps makes it all around? If the 308 has no business on this list neither does the 270 or 30/06. Only the magnum calibers have any real difference in energy compared to the 308. Yet the highest picked caliber is 30/06.

Because I don't assume to know everything, and just like you argue my take on the situation. People fall into the trap of assuming what they like or shoot well is the best, the best is likely even one up from my favourite for the task, as the most experienced travelling hunters in this thread prefer .300 and up to .338 Winchester and .340 Weatherby for an accross the continent cartridge. If I stacked the poll to include only what I view as acceptable, would be a pretty boring debate, for instance I don't see the .270 as appropriate. I view it a lot like a truck for towing a heavy load, the .30-06 is a half ton. In a pinch it will tow most things, but you don't want to be towing your $40,000 hunt on it when things get steep. Most of the time it's perfect. If you can park and drive a 3/4 ton diesel as well as the half ton, and tow a lot, why bother with the half ton?

 

[MattW]

I picked the 338 Win Mag, when you're talking all of North America you've got Grizzlies and Bison on one end of the spectrum and long shots on Pronghorn on the other end. The 338 hits a little harder than the 300 Win Mag and shoots a little flatter (arguably) than the 375 H&H. That said I'd have no problem using the 300 Win Mag, 300 Weatherby, 300 H&H, 340 Weatherby or 375 H&H either, I don't think you'd be far wrong with any of these and probably a few others. I don't think I'd go smaller than 300 Magnum though. That said I read an article in Sports Afield a while back where Phil Shoemaker had just had his new go to rifle put together and it was a 30-06. Not many people see as many grizzlies as him and on the other end of the spectrum it would do just fine on Pronghorn. I'm still going 338 though.

 

[hoytcanon]

...the .30-06 is a half ton. In a pinch it will tow most things, but you don't want to be towing your $40,000 hunt on it when things get steep. Most of the time it's perfect. If you can park and drive a 3/4 ton diesel as well as the half ton, and tow a lot, why bother with the half ton?

Ardent, you present a logical argument, but where the logic breaks down (IMO) is in the proportion of the usage.

I spend 99% of my time (as do most) on moose sized and down game... here the .30/06 excels. When you add big bears and bison into the mix, the .30/06 will get the job done, but is not considered ideal by the most experienced of bear/bison hunters, and marginal at best by others... and an aught six would require a maximum loading with a heavy bullet, and ideal shot placement within a reasonable range. On game smaller than deer the .30/06 is easily and comfortably downloaded for matching performance (here you will argue that so can the .300 WM)...
In fact, I would indeed, tow my $40,000 bear and bison hunt with my aught six half-ton... because you have only allowed me one truck (by your thread rules)... and the Half ton is best suited to 99% of my purposes... and "sufficient" for the others.

If I lived in the Yukon and was a big bear/bison aficionado then I would have a different perspective and would argue for a cartridge, capable of producing more energy and momentum... but if that were the case, I would not stop at .300 WM... or .338 WM for that matter, one of the .375 King's (ahem...) would be my preferred side-kick.

 

[Neo]

Because I don't assume to know everything, and just like you argue my take on the situation. People fall into the trap of assuming what they like or shoot well is the best, the best is likely even one up from my favourite for the task, as the most experienced travelling hunters in this thread prefer .300 and up to .338 Winchester and .340 Weatherby for an accross the continent cartridge. If I stacked the poll to include only what I view as acceptable, would be a pretty boring debate, for instance I don't see the .270 as appropriate. I view it a lot like a truck for towing a heavy load, the .30-06 is a half ton. In a pinch it will tow most things, but you don't want to be towing your $40,000 hunt on it when things get steep. Most of the time it's perfect. If you can park and drive a 3/4 ton diesel as well as the half ton, and tow a lot, why bother with the half ton?

I don't know Ardent. There's a lot to be said for a half ton you're familiar with, have faith in, and just plain enjoy. Even on a high $$$ hunt. Case in point. And just to be clear, that's a 30-06 in the picture. And the lion was in-bound when the fun started And no, the PH never fired a shot. And before anyone tries to pipe up and say that there's a .375 minimum on dangerous game in every African country, please ... Lion is a Class C animal in Zimbabwe, requiring a minimum muzzle energy of 3,150 ft-lbs and a minimum bullet diameter of 7mm. In the '06 with a stout handload, you're there. Shooting one of the factory "light magnum" type loads, you're more than there.

In the end, what a guy shoots generally has less of an outcome on the hunt than how he shoots ... and even more than that, how he chooses to hunt. If I personally chose to shoot game at ranges beyond what the 30-06 does well, then for sure, the 300 WM is a better choice. But what if I don't? What if hunting (for me, and with no offence to others) means savouring the experience of getting inside an animal's sensory range and stalking as close as possible? Shooting the same bullet, a 300 yard shot with a 30-06 and a 500 yard shot with a 300 WM effectively have a guy shooting the same cartridge in terms of energy on target. Honestly, I think this discussion is missing a really important dimension. I don't mean that as a criticism of this thread at all, quite the contrary. It just illustrates to me that an ideal cartridge doesn't come from just matching paper performance to various game animals, but also factoring in one's definition of "hunting".

It kinda makes me wonder what this discussion would look like if you had started it by asking what was the ideal bow, arrow and broadhead weight for North American hunting. Given the physical limits one quickly runs into in bowhunting, I think the point about hunting style and self-imposed limits would have arisen much sooner.

Interesting thread though, all the same