SR/CQB load bearing gear --- Newbie needs help!

Longshot338

Longshot338

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Hello everyone,

I am excited to get into Service Rifle shooting this year. I have been getting ready bit by bit, and I hope to start with some CQB first.

I have a rifle, mags, ammo, etc... What I do not have as of yet is a system to carry said items.

I have talked extensively with TacticalTeacher (many thanks for the help Barney!), and another good friend of mine with experience in the field.

So far, I have ruled out a chest rig. I don't like the look and feel as a preference. I was told that if I anticipate doing any 3-gun or CQB, a vest would be more versatile as well.

I have been told to "Buy once and cry once". Good advice. I am on a tight budget, so this will be a little difficult. I have ruled out HSGI, Mayflower, TAD, etc... for that reason. I have also ruled out Condor and Voodoo for the low-end of the scale. Something along the lines of 5.11 or Blackhawk, maybe Tactical Tailor. Preferably second hand.

For mag pouches I like the 5.11 design. Choice of closed top or elastic retention. I like the design.

Questions:

#1: How many rifle mags need I be prepared to carry on my person? I will be running 5/30 Pmags for a while; perhaps LAR 10/10 in the future, but please advise for the number of 5/30 mags to be carried.

#2: How many pistol mags need I be prepared to carry on my person? I will be using a 1911 with 7-round mags.

#3: 2 mags per slot or one? Two looks bulky in how far they protrude from your person. I would expect that the flatter profile of the single mag pouches would be easier to shoot prone with; or am I off base here? If I go with single mag pouches, I will be taking up a lot more room on my vest though.

#4: What other accessories do I need? Trying to keep it minimalist. I would like a small MedKit and a dump pouch. Do I need to carry water on me, or will it be sufficiently accessible if I leave it elsewhere like at the line or with the rest of my gear?

#5: What brand should I look for, and where might I find it? I am not hung up on a particular brand; I have mentioned a couple I liked, but I am sure there are lots more out there. Bear in mind; the price-point and quality I am looking for is 5.11, Blackhawk, or similar. The whole setup I would prefer to be in OD, second choice FDE.

#6: What are the CPgear outfits like? I like the CadPat :) :cool: How is the construction quality? How about design? Are they worth the price?

Ideally if I could find some outdated quality milsurp in reasonable condition that would meet my requirements for less than $150, I would be happy as the proverbial pig. I tried searching ebay; TONS of crap, no-name crap, airsoft crap, and anything brand-name was priced as high or higher than I can order it from a dealer in Canada!

Input would be greatly appreciated; thanks for the help guys!
 
I have never shot service rifle, but just started in action shooting/3 gun, so maybe some of this will relate. Have a look at Tasmanian Tiger MK ii chest rig. TV Press pass does a good review on it on YouTube. It is right in the middle for pricing. I was originally looking at it and the 5-11 but didn't like the internal system that held the mags on the 5-11, and wanted something a little less bulky. plus after having to buy additional pistol pouches etc it got to the same price as some of the "better" quality stuff. I ended up with an hsgi AO chest rig package that would have been the same price as the 5-11 with the extra pistol mags. If you're looking at HSGI, I found select shooting supplies to have the best price, but all the sponsors are very close.
The course of fire will determine how many mags you need. I started with 3 Pmags pinned to 5 and quickly realized that the more you have to reload, the slower you are. Get LAR mags or if you rich, Beowulf mags.
Keep an eye on the EE, and to be honest sign up for some of the air soft sites. Those guys are crazy about buying "real" gear and usually end up with way too much kit that they need to sell when their team switches camo colours.
Try stuff on, and don't Rush buying it. Go to a match and talk to the guys/gals. See what works, what doesn't and expect to buy stuff and sell it cause it was a mistake.

Good luck, have fun and always wear cargo pants.......they work like extra mag pouches!
 
ORA SR and CQB stickys at the top of the forum have kit info. I'm surprised TT didn't tell you that.

On a budget for both, get 6 LAR mags and polymer extenders.

I've run a condor vest for 5 years. Still going strong. It's competition, not combat conditions.

I did a yotube vid a couple of years ago. Hopefully it helps. This is only what WORKS FOR ME. Others vary. I don't think I have ever seen any two civies at an even with the same kit.
My own kit has evolved a bit since then as well, but only in minor ways. I am also a bit weird in that I shoot rifle right handed and pistol left so my mag placement is unique to me.


Water - I found I like having a water badder with me. For CQB you can easily have it with your kit to drink when you are bombing your mags. SR you can drink in the butts. However forget stuff and hate to go thirsty. When you get dehydrated you don't think real well. Water is good. I'd at least get a vest that has a badder pouch so you can add one as time/$$ permits.

A dump pouch is essential in SR and handy in CQB
 
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For speed, belt setup is faster because all the mags are at the waist level. If speed is the game, you must go with a belt setup.

Chest rig and other setups that put mags on the chest is slower to draw mags, but they are better for load bearing.

In general, security and better load bearing = slower. That's why it is not a good idea to wear combat gear to comp for speed, and don't take comp gear to combat for load bearing + security.

3-gun and CQB are totally different animals. 3-gun are speed ( in shooting, movement and reloading )and accuracy. CQB is just accuracy.
 
greentips said:
For speed, belt setup is faster because all the mags are at the waist level. If speed is the game, you must go with a belt setup.

Chest rig and other setups that put mags on the chest is slower to draw mags, but they are better for load bearing.

In general, security and better load bearing = slower. That's why it is not a good idea to wear combat gear to comp for speed, and don't take comp gear to combat for load bearing + security.

3-gun and CQB are totally different animals. 3-gun are speed ( in shooting, movement and reloading )and accuracy. CQB is just accuracy.
Click to expand...

I would agree with all except....CQB and to a less extent SR....does require efficiency for administrative tasks (stowing empty mags, reloading, transition from rifle to pistol, IA drills - if required) as everything is done under a time limit. There are no extra points for being done first, but you get zeros for highest scoring hits for shots fired after the time expires.
 
Longshot338 - are you signed up to attend any of the ORA CQB clinics? Go info there, I recommend them if you can fit them in your time/$$ budget.

They are not required however. You can always just come to a match. As long as you have pockets to stow mags you can run the course of fire and start learning how things work. You can also check out other shooters kit to get ideas about what can work for you.

I hear what you are saying about buy once cry once, but if the cost of a vest is keeping you out of starting in the game...get something can afford and get rolling. It's always better to shoot with less than perfect gear and to not shoot at all.
 
Not as cheap as $150, a little over your budget but still worth a look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1o1iN90nYQ#t=137

Assuming you already have a belt holster for your 1911 of course. I've seen the D3 Chest rig on EE from time to time. It can be worn either high on your torso to facilitate a belt load, or low so it's more akin to wearing webbing; and it wasn't mentioned in your original thread.

This will allow you to carry 4 mags on your person (5 if you use the "STUFFIT" pouch as a mag pouch); plus one in your rifle.
 
When I started in the CQB game I was using a Blackhawk vest and Condor pouches that I found on the EE. For me they worked good for a couple of years but ended up changing over to a HSGI battle belt set-up with suspenders and would never look back. The vest works and alot of guys use them but I found that a battle belt set-up is better for me. The vest is hotter than hell in the summer months and there aint much shade at the CQB shoots. Most of the times I can't get the water into me fast enough. The battle belt set-up is quicker to get in and out of also when natures calls. Also, a battle belt is a bit easier to use when it gets colder and you gotta add on some extra clothing. In the end, it's your dime so read up and surf the web to see what other guys are using and what they have to say. The EE is a great place to shop and good deals do come up often. I had to bite the dime and buy new when I was shopping, two weeks later two belts came up for sale on the EE. Good luck and we will see you at the CQB shoots this year.
 
Just get a dump pouch and run your first service comp/clinic out of that. Check out what other people are using, take some notes and then decide. Looking at some of this kit in low res pictures online just doesn't tell you anything about the fit or quality. If you're on a tight budget is best that you do proper research.
 
I think this might be a good option for mounting mag-pouches. Very minimalist.

http://www.dstactical.com/product_info.php?cPath=8_39_42&products_id=30
minimav_2color_350.jpg
 
I started with a bunch of Condor gear(vest, kangaroo pouches, dump pouch) and a blackhawk Serpa drop leg. It works ok, but I wasn't totally happy with it.

I moved away from that to a battle belt + minimal plate carrier with mostly HSGI pouches. I have a blackhawk hydration pouch on the plate carrier as I go through a lot of water.

For CQB, you need to be able to carry 4x 5 round mags that you have ready access to as well as two pistol mags. You will also need a 4 round rifle mag for certain matches, but it is not loaded against the clock.

For SR, you are going to need a ton of 5 rounders if you choose to stick with them. I believe you need to have 50 rounds loaded at once with another mag for sighters.

I use the LAR mags with polymer extensions from GSDesigns like Bolivar mentioned. They work great.
 
I second, or third?, going with LAR mags for SR. I have gone from 10 5/30 PMAGs and 1 LAR mag for SR loadouts to 6 LAR mags. Makes for way less bulk in whatever rig you choose. Speaking of rigs, I have suffered through 3 seasons of SR using a basic LBT chest rig. It sucks for prone shooting because I can never get comfortable prone shooting when lying on top of my mags. Strongly considering a battle belt this year or a tac vest that I can unbuckle/unzip to get those mags out of the way. Oh, who am I kidding, I'm too damn cheap for that.
 
Mellow Yellow said:
Just get a dump pouch and run your first service comp/clinic out of that. Check out what other people are using, take some notes and then decide. Looking at some of this kit in low res pictures online just doesn't tell you anything about the fit or quality. If you're on a tight budget is best that you do proper research.
Click to expand...

If the OP is on a tight budget (like most of us!) attending the clinic with as little gear as possible is a great idea. I wish I'd done this.
I put together my first setup prior to my first SR outing, and it was terrible. I forced my way through 3x matches with it and was shooting around my gear most of the time.
Here's a picture of my 7.62x51 train wreck!



Thankfully, I spent <$100 on that experiment :)

Has the OP looked at the 2 piece Tactical Tailor MAV w/Harness? Minimal with lots of space, and it opens up at the front for easy on/off.

Vest $82
http://www.dstactical.com/product_info.php?cPath=8_39_42&products_id=29

This is what I've used this time around, it's really comfortable so far.
Good luck!

Harness $44
http://www.dstactical.com/product_info.php?cPath=8_39_42&products_id=31
 
I shot service rifle with a shopping bag and chest mounted 3 mag shingle when I was doing it at my own dime last year. There was one match I forgot to bring my mag shingles so I just used the shopping on its own. I believed I might have used a lululemon or B2 bag left in the house by my ex.....and the bag started falling apart by the 2nd or 3rd match. Not bad for a free bag!

Bryan talks about administration, that is why I use a shopping bag. I just dump all the stuff in the shopping bag, such as water and mags. It is only a 100m dash each time, a shopping bag is not a big deal. There is enough time to rumble through the shopping bag to find mags.

I am not saying my setup should be followed or it is even good advice at all, but service rifle is not very fast paced so this can be done. If you are tight on budget and don't want to invest in gear for the first season. just bring a shopping bag and dump all your stuff in it.
 
greentips said:
I shot service rifle with a shopping bag and chest mounted 3 mag shingle when I was doing it at my own dime last year. There was one match I forgot to bring my mag shingles so I just used the shopping on its own. I believed I might have used a lululemon or B2 bag left in the house by my ex.....and the bag started falling apart by the 2nd or 3rd match. Not bad for a free bag!

Bryan talks about administration, that is why I use a shopping bag. I just dump all the stuff in the shopping bag, such as water and mags. It is only a 100m dash each time, a shopping bag is not a big deal. There is enough time to rumble through the shopping bag to find mags.

I am not saying my setup should be followed or it is even good advice at all, but service rifle is not very fast paced so this can be done. If you are tight on budget and don't want to invest in gear for the first season. just bring a shopping bag and dump all your stuff in it.
Click to expand...

I wish I had been at that match. :)

Yeah, that can work for SR....not so much for CQB. You can't be carrying mags in a bag for walking and shooting, advance and fire. You can get away with cargo pockets and/or perhaps a dump pouch to start. I would say for CQB it is critical to have a sling that does not get in your way, a holster that secures your pistol (and can itself can be secured to you....yeah we had a guy drop his whole holster last year) and a means of holding 5 rifle mags (one loaded with 4 so keep that separate from the rest) and two pistol mags.

Beyond that is personal preference. Also, no system will work if you don't practice with it. After you have been to a clinic or match to get a feel for what is involved and purchased kit, practice with it at home. Make sure your sling does not interfere with anything, make sure you can get to your mags and they are orientated the right way to efficiently reload your carbine and pistol. Jump up and down with all your gear on and make sure your kit stays attached. Make sure you can draw you pistol free and clear when your rifle is slung.
 
Wow, tons of input! Thanks guys!

I have been able to try out 4 or 5 different styles now; thanks to Barney and a couple of friends. #

That TT MAV system looks nice, but I would prefer something that rides a little higher. I also want to have a pouch for misc gear, maybe at the side. #

I ha e been paying attention to those of you who suggest a basic chest rig and belt combo. #I have a Blackhawk holster and mag pouch for my 1911. I will make do with them for now. I would maybe run a battle belt with them on, plus a dump pouch and H2O. Above that a vest or chest rig. #

I have found 2 that interest me within my budget. Tasmanian Tiger gear. They have a chest rig and a vest that I like. #I previously stated my preference against the chest rig option, however, I like this one. It has pouches for misc gear at the sides, and a bib for the top of the chest. #

The vest: #
http://www.tasmaniantactical.com/TT_Ammunition_Vest_p/7612.331.htm

I like the extra pockets and the capacity. What I want to know if can I secure the mag pouches open by tucking the flaps up or behind the mags for easier access during a course of fire?

The chest rig:
http://www.tasmaniantactical.com/TT_Chest_Rig_MKII_p/7160.331.htm

This is the only chest rig I like the looks of so far. What I want to know is if the thicker shoulder straps will hinder my buttstock and gun mount? Also, will the 5 mag pouches be able to hold 1 or 2 mags each?

I appreciate the helpful input so far, thanks guys!

Alec
 
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