George Gibbs Ltd 375 h&h

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maimann

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hi I'm trying to figure out when this canadian gun was made and a ball park range price for this "Elephant Gun"
http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/connor_maimann1/media/DSC_0501_zpsvzuonkd5.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/connor_maimann1/media/DSC_0495_zpsxbp8ycgp.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1
http://s1377.photobucket.com/user/connor_maimann1/media/DSC_0494_zpsddfowxkc.jpg.html?o=0
 
maimann said:
hi I'm trying to figure out when this canadian gun was made and a ball park range price for this "Elephant Gun"
DSC_0501_zpsvzuonkd5.jpg.html

DSC_0495_zpsxbp8ycgp.jpg.html

DSC_0494_zpsddfowxkc.jpg.html
Click to expand...

Let's try embedding those images.
 
Better pics would be nice. It was built on a Magnum Mauser commercial action, but unfortunately it's been heavily altered. Bolt handle and safety have been altered, plus extra holes for the scope mounts, the receiver sight, and a totally unnecessary gas-escape hole in the receiver ring right in front of the extractor. Pre-WWII manufacture, but it's hard to narrow it down any more than that.

If you threw everything else away and sold just the action you would likely still get $1500-2000 for it. Complete rifle, best guess is $3500-4500.
 
9.3mauser:

Are you sure it's a Magnum Mauser commercial action & not just an opened-up standard action, which was commonly used after the war?

The Proof Act of 1904 London proof marks date the rifle's manufacture to between 1904 and 1925. Considering the .375 Belted Rimless Magnum Nitro Express didn't see the light of day until 1912, we can tighten up the DOM to between 1912 & 1925. Further tightening up the time-frame are the facts that no sporting arms were made between that fateful day in August of 1914 & early 1919 and the fact that Messrs. Holland did not release their proprietary cartridge to the trade until the end of the War to End All Wars. So now we have a DOM of 1919 to 1925.

Unless it was a left-over action, there weren't any manufacturers of magnum mauser actions after Armistice Day, 1918, until the French Brevex action began being made.

So, measure the length of the receiver from front to back. If it measures 8.750", it's a standard Mauser 98 action that has been opened up, like my Holland & Holland 98-actioned rifle. If it measures 9.150" (Mauser Werke manufacture) or 9.240" (Brevex manufacture [unlikely], it is, in fact, a Magnum Mauser action of fame & legend, and, as noted above, worth more.
 
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I got thinking about whether it might have been a Brevex, so I came back for another look. It has the long cocking piece, or firing pin nut as it's sometimes called, which was typical for commercial magnum actions. I've seen commercial standard and kurz length actions with the short cocking piece, but so far, not a magnum. The Brevex action normally used the short cocking piece.

It also has the extended, or drop magazine. British gunmakers did indeed open up a lot of standard length actions to accommodate longer cartridges, and well before WWI, but most used the original magazine box. Holland & Holland, Cogswell's, and Rigby post WWII are the only ones I know of to go to the trouble to make new extended magazine boxes.

The bolt handle has been altered, but not totally replaced, and still retains some of the original pear shape, again, a feature of original Mauser sporters.

Lastly, in spite of the poor pics, the magazine opening just appears to be too long to be a standard length Mauser.
 
so i measured the receiver and it is saying 8.25 inches. just wondering how i can definitively figure the gun model and a price range. also wondering where the best place to sell the firearm would be at ?
 
maimann:
8 1/4" is wrong; did you mean 8 3/4"? Where are you measuring from / to? (Should be from back end of action behind rear trigger guard screw to the very front of the receiver ring)
Front ring diameter: Standard Mauser 98 = 1.410", Magnum = 1.500")

9.3mauser
I've had 4 standard length commercial sporters (British-retailed) with the long cocking piece (Jeffery x 2, Greener & Westley Richards).
What is interesting is the gas vent hole on the right hand side of the receiver ring. Brevex had them, but on the left hand side of the action.

Unless it is a forgery meant to deceive (based on the 1904-1925 London Proof House proof marks, it cannot be a Brevex as they weren't made then.
Mauser brought out the real magnum action at Rigby's request in 1904 (first so-called magnum action was the Siamese Mauser type for the rimmed 400/350 Rigby in 1900) & were the only ones allowed to sell them until 1912. Gibbs started getting/using them in 1913 for their 505 Gibbs, after Rigby's monopoly on Mauser actions ended.

Also interesting is the fact that the rear receiver ring does not appear to be a flat top, although it could be; I just can't make it out in the photo. Other than that, the rifle looks very similar to the one on the cover of the 1927 Gibbs catalogue.
 
Oh & by the way, it is only a Canadian rifle insofar as it is currently located, I presume, in Canada. It was made in Bristol, England. And it's too light for a true elephant rifle. (It is a medium bore rifle). Gibbs made the .505 Gibbs for that purpose.

Is there an address on the barrel?

Can you give us the first 3 or 4 digits of the serial number to hopefully narrow down the DOM even more?

We need more information to determine its value.
 
jamesharrison said:
9.3mauser
I've had 4 standard length commercial sporters (British-retailed) with the long cocking piece (Jeffery x 2, Greener & Westley Richards).
What is interesting is the gas vent hole on the right hand side of the receiver ring. Brevex had them, but on the left hand side of the action.


Also interesting is the fact that the rear receiver ring does not appear to be a flat top, although it could be; I just can't make it out in the photo. Other than that, the rifle looks very similar to the one on the cover of the 1927 Gibbs catalogue.
Click to expand...

I suspect the gas vent hole was a gunsmith's idea of an "improvement", likely done at the same time the scope was mounted. The rear bridge looks odd, but I can't see it clearly. I believe it's an Oberndorf, not a Brevex.

Either type of cocking piece could be found on standard or kurz actions, long or short, but so far, I haven't seen an original magnum with a short one. I get what you're saying though, just having the long nut doesn't mean it's a magnum, but you'd still have to explain the drop magazine.
 
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There is a "George Gibbs" here on Vancouver Island. Have not met him personally, but have seen some of his work, which is exceptional. Not sure if this is the same individual, but certainly not the "Gibbs" of old.
 
9.3Mauser
Do you think it's a drop magazine or maybe just a longer (deeper) blank with wood extending further down the trigger guard / mag box? The only stripped magnum action I've ever seen in the flesh was a new in-the-white Brevex action at Guncraft back in the 80's (for only $2,500.00).

I think you previously mentioned the reprint of the Oberndorf book. Any photos that are similar to this one in there?

I've read speculation that Gibbs corroborated with Mauser on the big actions as Rigby's monopoly was running out. Maybe Gibbs wanted a few changes on his magnum actions, if it is, in fact, a Magnum action, especially for the .505.

Improvement, huh! Well, $hee-it, we probably don't have enough holes in this here piece of steel, so let's just drill some more!

;-)

(Musta been bubba's older brother!)
 
A measurement of 8.75" confirms that it is, in fact, a standard length Mauser 98 action that has been opened up for the .375 cartridge.

Are there any words on the left side of the receiver wall (perhaps you will not be able to see them under the scope base)? It may be a military action that has been reworked or it may be a commercial action. My Holland & Holland is built on a DWM receiver.

Gibbs B series serial numbers indicate the rifle was bought in as a completed rifle made by someone else.

B7451 was sold in 1928, so it looks like it sat around for a bit after it passed proof, whether at Gibbs or whoever made it for them.
 
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Measured from the end of the tang, to the end of the receiver, 8 3/4" would make it a standard action ( I see JH has beaten me to it) I was sure it was a magnum. :confused:

An oberndorf magnum would be 9.15" overall, with the later brevex mausers being somewhat longer again.
 
Yes, please post more pics. If you lay it on a white surface in daylight with no flash we will get the most detail for you. It would be useful to see all modifications and extra holes in detail to determine the value.

eta: top and bottom of action, bolt removed, rear sight and front sight shots would help.
 
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So I got poking around on the net, and found this pic of an original Gibbs .505 on a magnum action. If you look closely, you'll see that the square bridge has been rounded off, so it's the same height as the bolt sleeve flange and the charger guide. I dug up another photo in my Mauser book by Jon Speed, and it shows the same treatment on the .505 they have pictured there, but with a stippled rear bridge. So that would explain the odd shaped rear bridge on this .375. I'm still not convinced it's not a magnum action, but at the very least it was a square bridge commercial Mauser.



8117512hdh_zpsbezxbjld.jpg
 
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