Krag Jorgensen in 6.5x55 ammo choice

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drslav

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Today i came across a good condition sporter krag rifle. I read a lot of info on the gun and i really like it. I want to shot it. I did read somewhere that store bought ammo may be unsafe due to higher pressure and this gun should be reloaded for. It looks like strong action with three lugging places and i feel that it is safe then again i don't want to take a chance.
Question here is how many of you think its safe or unsafe and what brand of ammo etc. Any experience and educated opinion is greatly appreciated.

20150322_203207_zpsv0im10mc.jpg
 
I've seen a couple of these rifle chambered in 308 win , and they both seem well used and completely intact .

my feeling is that all factory ammo would be safe , unless it actually came with a warning to not use in in a krag

it is also my understanding that the 6,5x55 rifles are stronger than the 303 rifles .

one of the owners of the 308 conversions told me it was all in how they set up the locking lugs .
the 6.5 versions , at the factory they took the time to make sure the locking lugs engaged at the same time so the force of the explosion was spread over more than just the front lug .

on the 30-40 based rifles for what ever reason the front locking lug was designed to take the full force all on its own .

.....edit not 303 but 30-40
 
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found this

In October 1899, after reviewing the experiences of the Spanish–American War, U.S. Army ordnance authorities developed a new loading for the .30 Army used in the Krag rifle, in an attempt to match the ballistics of the 7×57mm Mauser cartridge employed by Spanish forces in that conflict. The new loading increased the muzzle velocity in the rifle version of the Krag to 2,200 ft/s (670 m/s) at 45,000 psi. However, once the new loading was issued, reports of cracked locking lugs on service Krags began to surface. In March 1900 the remaining stocks of this ammunition (some 3.5 million rounds) were returned to the arsenals, broken down, and reloaded back to the original 2,000 ft/s (610 m/s) specification.

having read that... the 30-40 craig max CIP is 47,137 PSI and 6.5x55 max pressure CIP is 55,110 PSI

European rifle makers including Blaser, CZ, Sauer & Sohn, Steyr and Mauser Jagdwaffen GmbH offer sporting rifles chambered for this cartridge, as does the Finnish arms manufacturer SAKO/Tikka, while ammunition manufacturers such as Norma, Lapua, Prvi Partizan, RUAG Ammotec and Hornady offer loadings of the 6.5×55mm round that are designed for use only in modern hunting rifles that can tolerate higher chamber pressures. According to the Finnish powder manufacturer Vihtavuori modern 380.00 MPa (55,114 psi) Pmax piezo pressure loadings should never be used in older military rifles like the Krag-Jørgensen or Swedish Mauser.[15]
 
interesting ..... I know with the Swedish mauser the locking lugs set back when exposed to repeated high pressure , they don't necessarily go "boom" ....

maybe get your the rifle in question inspected for cracks , there are a few different methods .
if the lugs crack , instead of setting back and increasing the headspace , a person could experience a "boom" .

I bought a parts rifle that I haven't figured out what to do with it yet . the action is so slick and smooth it is just begging to be put back into service ....
 
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more info i found

I and a lot of others shot Norma factory ammunition in Norwegian Krags for a long time and I have never heard of an issue. Compared to the US Krag, the steel is better and better treated and what acts as a safety lug in the US krag is made to act as a real locking lug in the Norwegian Krag. I have seen these actions re-barreled to 308 and 243 and they appeared to show no ill effects from these high-pressure rounds. I do not like the idea of these conversions, by the way but the Krag seems to be as able to handle continued use at these pressures
 
and this..

Here's a letter from Norma regarding this issue:



Dear Sir

Norma has loaded 6,5x55 to old ’c41,000PSI) pressures for the Krag at odd intervals- notably during WWII – Ammunition for these is packed in brown waxed paper pakages of 10 rounds are are FMJ type only. The only exception is ammunition supplied to the Norwegian resistance during WWII which was in civilian packaging. All of this ammo is corrosively primed and uses Berdan primers- in many cases the powder has begun to degrade. I would not fire any Pre 1947 Norwegian or Swedish ammo.



As loaded by Norma all 6,5x55 Ammo is safe for use in any of the Mauser rifles and is loaded to an operating pressure of Approx 51,000psi (We use mega Pascals for pressure). It isn’t suitable for use in the Krag rifles.



If you wish to shoot your old Krag, handloading is the only option I am afraid. NB- The priming used up to 1947 used mercury, Potassium Chlorate and glass- on firing the glass was very erosive on the throat and the KClO3 turns into KCl (same properties as table salt- extremely hydroscopic) and the mercury was more corrosive than even the KCl – what this means for you is- check the throat (lead) before firing! Modern boxer primers do not give as good ignition as the old military primers and there is a much slower build up of pressure with today’s cases, primers and powder…all a recipe for the bullet to stick in the throat. If it just hesitates, you’ll blow a primer and possibly bend the bolt on a Krag. If it sticks, the barrel blows – even at 40,000PSI.



You need to use a magnum primer and an easy to ignite powder like Vihtavouri N160 or IMR 4350





Dr Don Heath D.Sc.
Manager Technical Support
Norma Precision AB
S 670 40
Åmotfors
Sweden
 
I have 3 Krags , one in 6.5x54MS, one in 6.5x55 and one in 30-40. I acquired them throughout the winter so have not shot them. However, the only one that will see off the shelf ammo is the 30-40 in either Winchester or Federal. The ammo is designed for these rifles and is of low enough pressure. For the other 2 calibers I have read numerous reports saying not to fire off the shelf ammo in a Krag, especially European ammo. On another forum someone wrote Privi and asked them about their 6.5 ammo being used in a Krag. Their answer was that the pressure of their ammo is too high for the Krag. So take it for what it's worth. I'm sure the gun won't blow up from the odd diet of factory ammo but who knows. I bought reloading dies.
 
another...

Regarding the blow-up of rifles using the Danish 6.5 x 55 ammo:

I'm pretty sure the reason for the blow-ups were caused by SEE (Secondary Explosion Effect) and not a general high pressure in the ammo. Why? Back in the seventies I shoot several hundred rounds of the very same 1947 ammo in a Swedish 96 Mauser with no ill effect. Then I got a copy of the book 'Rifles of the World' and it warned about using the ammo. The book mentioned build-up in the bore as the culprit.

I was a little reluctant to shoot the ammo after reading this (to put it mildly) but I decided to try reducing the load a little, and maybe circumvent the problem that way.
(I was a teenager then, dirt poor, and my brain was probably not fully developed by the time)
As said as done; I pulled the bullet from four of the cartridges, weighed the powder, and reloaded the rounds using 10% less powder.
I still remember telling my shooting buddy after shooting the first two rounds that the load was reduced too much - there was too little 'oomph' in the gun.
Then I fired the third round...
This time I had all the oomph one could ask for and then some. The gun had a blowback, and since the venting holes in a 96 bolt are ridiculous small, the firing pin was blown back with such force that it snapped, and the rear part hit, first my thumb, and then my forehead leading to a considerable amount of involuntary bloodletting on my part.
When we later examined the gun we found the case head had expanded causing a severe gas leak through the primer pocket. The bullet was lodged in the throat with the base distorted and was removed with a few smart hammer blows on a rod from the muzzle. After a new firing pin, and enlarging the vent holes the gun was back in action.
I'm absolutely sure I didn't mess up when loading the rounds - not sure it would even be possible to overload with the flake-type powder which was used.
Perhaps it was a weak primer or the powder was too old, but something did indeed go wrong.
 
if you look closely you will notice that the action on the ag42 is intact , and so is the bolt . so I doubt is was a over pressure load that blew it up , but rather an out of battery ignition , where just before lockup the floating firing pin nails the primer just hard enough to set it off , or it was a high pressure load that the action could handle , but when that high pressure hit the gasblock , it forced the action open way too soon ripping the rear of the case off and allowing high pressure to wreak havoc on the internals .

if the bullet is oversized my guess is a out of battery ignition .


drslav said:
another forum


A mild warning.....

Just saw this post and thought I'd toss in a quick note....a quantity of Danish military surplus 6.5 x 55 was imported some years ago. DON'T USE IT. It is recognizable by the small triangle stamped on the base. Unlike the Swedish ammo, it used a copperized steel jacket and slightly oversized bullet which caused some action damage (much higher pressure) when used in the Swede rifles. I know this has nothing to do with cast, but I just wanted to get the word out to folks that shoot this stuff can be hazadous to you (and your rifle's) health.
This was a Swedish Ag42b fired with less than 10 rds of the aforementioned Danish 6.5x55 and not by a newbie but an experienced collector. Completely destroyed the rifle.
ha1-vi.jpg

ag1-vi.jpg
Click to expand...
 
My Dad and I had one of these chambered in 6.5X55. For years you couldn't get ammo here in Canada for it and then Hornandy started bringing it in again. The cartidges come in various powder charges and as long as you go for a slightly lower end one you'll be fine. They things are built to take it.

PM'd you also....
 
burnt_servo said:
if you look closely you will notice that the action on the ag42 is intact , and so is the bolt . so I doubt is was a over pressure load that blew it up , but rather an out of battery ignition , where just before lockup the floating firing pin nails the primer just hard enough to set it off , or it was a high pressure load that the action could handle , but when that high pressure hit the gasblock , it forced the action open way too soon ripping the rear of the case off and allowing high pressure to wreak havoc on the internals .

if the bullet is oversized my guess is a out of battery ignition .
Click to expand...
I wonder if a guy could get his hands on the now ag42 parts gun ...... well at least the magazine:D
 
ran across this pic on my computer

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couldn't find the text right up on the picture , but the gist of it was , the receiver that had a 90 degree corner ( ie m1894 Kongsberg ) where more prone to creating stress fractures in the corner .

the other receiver , the m1912, with the radius seemed to didn't have fracture problems .
 
again , the more reading I do a couple things become very apparent , the 2 main locking lugs need to be lapped in such away that they equally use the pressure of the round firing .

2, the receiver and bolt needs to be gone over with a fine tooth comb looking for cracks .

3 check the condition of the throat , if the throat is rough , you may have a issue of the bullet sticking in the throat ;

""If you wish to shoot your old Krag, handloading is the only option I am afraid. NB- The priming used up to 1947 used mercury, Potassium Chlorate and glass- on firing the glass was very erosive on the throat and the KClO3 turns into KCl (same properties as table salt- extremely hydroscopic) and the mercury was more corrosive than even the KCl – what this means for you is- check the throat (lead) before firing! Modern boxer primers do not give as good ignition as the old military primers and there is a much slower build up of pressure with today’s cases, primers and powder…all a recipe for the bullet to stick in the throat. If it just hesitates, you’ll blow a primer and possibly bend the bolt on a Krag. If it sticks, the barrel blows – even at 40,000PSI. "




amongst other things , one of the fixes for this is
"You need to use a magnum primer and an easy to ignite powder like Vihtavouri N160 or IMR 4350"

" Dr Don Heath D.Sc.
Manager Technical Support
Norma Precision AB
S 670 40
Åmotfors
Sweden "




my feeling is , if the rifle passes all of this , it will digest any ammo that a 96 mauser is able to digest . .....


that said I have fed a lot of Remington and federal ammo in my 96 mausers . I have found norma to be loaded a bit hotter , noticeably more recoil and sound ..... almost to the point that it makes a guy wonder if this is loaded to hotly for this gun ( 96 mauser ) ....
 
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Thanks for the info servo. I read that Norma ammo was loaded milder and was actually better than domestically made ammo. Hard to say. I will still load for it i think. Just safer.
My gun is the one with square receiver. I checked the lugs and receiver. No stress marks of any kind and lugs are tight.
 
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