.30-30: Good for black bears at 100 yards+? BC hunters, you ought to know?

TheCoachZed said:
Everyone knows that, in theory.........
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You may be surprised to find out that "everyone" does not know that and haven't studied the theory. I didn't bother to ask the old gent how far he was taking his shots but I suspect 150 yards was a long shot with the vast majority being under 100 yards. That fact of the matter is, he was a good shot and knew where to place the bullet. I'm damn sure he didn't learn this from reading theory!
:)
 
30-30 and bear...Reminds me of a hunter and his son that I guided years back...The father sported a magnum of some kind and his young non hunting son carried an old Winchester 94...The idea the father said was to give the kid more of an experience while tagging along...Being simple, I thought why not...The hunt site was very remote and we traveled via C-206/floats...I waited out on the bank till early dusk and was just walking in to get the hunters when I heard a ka-pow not a BOOM a muffled ka-pow...Well, wouldn't you know, the father let the young kid shoot using the 30-30...I was pissed when the old man said it's a bruiser if you can find it...There was no blood sign so I headed off in the direction they pointed out...I soon regained my temper when the huge chocolate bruin blocked my travel on the well used trail, stone dead...No blood, no exit wound but there he was laid out...Ends up the plan was to use the 30-30 all along...The gun had been handed down from Great Grand Dad and so on and this hunt was the next chapter in the saga of this revered rifle...The life size mount stands in South Dakota with other mounts with the rifle on the wall.
 
StoneHorse said:
Talking to an old native hunter (Cree) decades ago, he used nothing but a 30/30 Win 94 for everything. Bear, moose, deer, caribou, etc and with 150 grain bullets. When I asked him why 150's and not 170 grain bullets, he replied the 150's were less money. Mind you, this guy was a subsistence hunter and not a sport shooter. I have no doubt the bullet went exactly where he wanted it to go.
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Back in 1990 - 1991 I was the sporting goods guy at our local Woolco.

I sold more 30-30 ammunition than all other centerfire combined.

Most of it was 150 grain, because it was selling for $1.50 less a box than the 170 grain variety.

With the native hunters, as well as old-timers, trappers, and others who couldn't care one whit about advertising or what was the newest thing, nobody questioned whether a 30-30 was good enough for anything.
 
The often repeated statement about needing a more powerful cartridge now for big game hunting than was used in yester year, has an angle to it that is never mentioned. The factory loads of many cartridges were often heavier loads seventy five years ago, than they are today. The same goes for reloading tables, many, if not all, loading charts of sixty years ago showed heavier loadings than do modern loading tables.
Take the 30-30 as an example. It was designed for a velocity of 2200 fps with the 170 grain bullet and apparently the early loadings did just that. I recently tested some CIL Dominion 30-30 factory loads in 30-30 from the 1950s and they actually did show around 2200 fps.
Modern factory loads are more on the order of 1900 fps, big difference.
I have early loading charts that show, 30-30, 170 grain bullet and 33 grains of 3031 powder. I have used this load and chronographed it. It made the 2200fps.
By contrast, Hogdon's on line loading charts show a maximum load of 29.2 grains of 3031 powder with 170 grain powder. I highly doubt if that load will reach 1900 fps.
Modern shooters wax eloquently about Leverevolution factory ammunition in the 30-30 and for good reason!
I have never shot them, but I have used the LVR powder, which apparently propels them, at the loading shown by Hodgodn's max load, 36.3 grains with 170 grain bullet. They show 2332 fps, about a hundred more than my chronograph showed, but still a load like the 30-30 was designed for and much faster than any 170 grain factory load will be in the 30-30, with the exception of Leverevolution brand.
So no, the game didn't get any tougher, but the ammunition got weaker!
 
H4831 said:
I have used the LVR powder, which apparently propels them, at the loading shown by Hodgodn's max load, 36.3 grains with 170 grain bullet. They show 2332 fps, about a hundred more than my chronograph showed!
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My single shot .30/30 load is a 150 BT over 38.5 grains LVR... it is quite a zinger.
 
Thanks, I had no idea about this, but I am using leverevolution.
H4831 said:
The often repeated statement about needing a more powerful cartridge now for big game hunting than was used in yester year, has an angle to it that is never mentioned. The factory loads of many cartridges were often heavier loads seventy five years ago, than they are today. The same goes for reloading tables, many, if not all, loading charts of sixty years ago showed heavier loadings than do modern loading tables.
Take the 30-30 as an example. It was designed for a velocity of 2200 fps with the 170 grain bullet and apparently the early loadings did just that. I recently tested some CIL Dominion 30-30 factory loads in 30-30 from the 1950s and they actually did show around 2200 fps.
Modern factory loads are more on the order of 1900 fps, big difference.
I have early loading charts that show, 30-30, 170 grain bullet and 33 grains of 3031 powder. I have used this load and chronographed it. It made the 2200fps.
By contrast, Hogdon's on line loading charts show a maximum load of 29.2 grains of 3031 powder with 170 grain powder. I highly doubt if that load will reach 1900 fps.
Modern shooters wax eloquently about Leverevolution factory ammunition in the 30-30 and for good reason!
I have never shot them, but I have used the LVR powder, which apparently propels them, at the loading shown by Hodgodn's max load, 36.3 grains with 170 grain bullet. They show 2332 fps, about a hundred more than my chronograph showed, but still a load like the 30-30 was designed for and much faster than any 170 grain factory load will be in the 30-30, with the exception of Leverevolution brand.
So no, the game didn't get any tougher, but the ammunition got weaker!
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I sure don't feel under gunned when packing my 336 in 30-30 around.

As a matter of factor, meself and the gun powder feller were doing some shooting a while
back and his terdie-turdy bullet went through a chunk of plate at 110 yards verses the
dent his 44 mag left behind.

Makes the ?? on which is better for mean fur?
 
hoytcanon said:
My single shot .30/30 load is a 150 BT over 38.5 grains LVR... it is quite a zinger.
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I tried 150 grain pointed in a Savage 340 bolt action. Seated at about the normal length, you couldn't eject a loaded round. To get a loaded round out you had to take the bolt out.
I have now acquired a 30-30 bolt Savage in real good condition, actually bearing the handle, "CIL 830," so I'll be working on some different loads with LVR to see what I can come up with. Bullets designed for the 30-30 seem really hard to come by, so I will likely be working with pointed of some type.
 
I have always used my .30-06 using both 150 and 180 grain bullets for black bear, but then again I am hunting in Grizzly country so want a little more gun if it is needed. Certainly the .30-30 will down a blackie if the bullet is placed where it needs to be.
 
H4831 said:
I tried 150 grain pointed in a Savage 340 bolt action. Seated at about the normal length, you couldn't eject a loaded round. To get a loaded round out you had to take the bolt out.
I have now acquired a 30-30 bolt Savage in real good condition, actually bearing the handle, "CIL 830," so I'll be working on some different loads with LVR to see what I can come up with. Bullets designed for the 30-30 seem really hard to come by, so I will likely be working with pointed of some type.
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I built a couple 340's for the kids, the Hornady 150 Interlock SP's were a good bullet with that combo... I was not loading LVR back then, but it would make a dandy, light carry rig for deer.
 
kamlooky said:
Makes the ?? on which is better for mean fur?
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hoytcanon said:
Oh geez... Here we go...
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Whats the matter there hoytcanon?
I prefer my TracII for mean fur...leaves 'em nice and smooth and no stubble at all ;)
Get close enough to a bruiser of a blackie and that terdie-turdy will bark with authority and Mr.blackie will be ready for the freezer in no time.
Of course, the guy carrying the gun has to do his part first.
Tight Groups,
Rob
 
kamlooky said:
I sure don't feel under gunned when packing my 336 in 30-30 around.

As a matter of factor, meself and the gun powder feller were doing some shooting a while
back and his terdie-turdy bullet went through a chunk of plate at 110 yards verses the
dent his 44 mag left behind.

Makes the ?? on which is better for mean fur?
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You got armor plated bear out there kamlooky :)
 
Funny you mention this. A bunch of years ago I had company over and we were sitting on the back deck.
Old hound had a konipshun fit.
I figured the bear looking dog was on the other side of our six foot fence.
Dang big ole bear...........with a limp.
School out the other side and I call 911. Bear, and school is almost out for the weekend.
RCMP lad shows up and asks where the bear went. Two doors over, just behind the blue spruce.
Away he goes, hand gun grasped between his mitts. I could hear him talking to the bear.
There were less than a dozen feet between the two.
Told Ole Yogi he needed to vamoosh or his time was up. He followed the bear and forced the brute
behind a big cedar...........ker-pow.
One shot ............... one dead Yogi.
Funny, a wee bit later the CO's show up to haul it away.
Pretty proud of that RCMP member.
I told him, "nice job. Not scared"?
His reply,........... "I'm armed, he ain't".

Naw.........no plated bears 'round here.............. :wave:
 
911?

In my neighbourhood, we just yell at 'em and throw rocks. Big ones. Maybe that's why he was limping. Decided to try in your neighbourhood instead. Bad idea, I guess.

My neighbour damn-near knocked one right out of his plum tree last year.

They can move fast when they are scared.
 
ironsighter said:
911?

In my neighbourhood, we just yell at 'em and throw rocks. Big ones. Maybe that's why he was limping. Decided to try in your neighbourhood instead. Bad idea, I guess.

My neighbour damn-near knocked one right out of his plum tree last year.

They can move fast when they are scared.
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Yes 911. Elementary school within eye distance of this bear.
And yes, school got out and bear still meandering around.
And yes, some kids did see this bear and the news was out.
Hence the reason why the RCMP member put the bear down quickly.
Things could of gotten out of hand in short order.
Neighbour has three plum trees with the fruit near rotting stage bringing
the bear from the nearby hill atop side less than a mile as the crow flies is
our local garbage dump.
 
kamlooky said:
Yes 911. Elementary school within eye distance of this bear.
And yes, school got out and bear still meandering around.
And yes, some kids did see this bear and the news was out.
Hence the reason why the RCMP member put the bear down quickly.
Things could of gotten out of hand in short order.
Neighbour has three plum trees with the fruit near rotting stage bringing
the bear from the nearby hill atop side less than a mile as the crow flies is
our local garbage dump.
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Same neighbourhood? I'm pretty sure I live on that "hill".

Dump is 2.35 miles from the school according to Google Earth. ;)
 
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