i have both, an m4 an a c8
the barrel on the c8 absolutely
the finish on the c8 absolutely
the rest, still have to check
LaRue, PWS, KAC etc, What Are We Really Paying For?
- Thread starter GunfighterAlpha
- Start date
i have both, an m4 an a c8
the barrel on the c8 absolutely
the finish on the c8 absolutely
the rest, still have to check
Jason Falla was the lead instructor on my HK course, maybe sometimes it good to hear from a "real end user" if you don't recognize the name, well GIYF;
Just so we are clear, this isn't about "waving the HK flag" it's merely an example. I"m sure there are other "testimonials" out there for KAC and Colt.
The OP wanted to know if there is a difference, and there is, I think that to some extend it's articulated here? You be the judge, it's your money.
Just so we are clear, this isn't about "waving the HK flag" it's merely an example. I"m sure there are other "testimonials" out there for KAC and Colt.
The OP wanted to know if there is a difference, and there is, I think that to some extend it's articulated here? You be the judge, it's your money.
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Nope it is true, comes from all the experts I have spoken too, sorry it just is. It's not KOOLAID the gun is made to do things in certain areas that a lot of the competition was not, you can see this by the USMC choosing the 416 for its IAR program.
Also years back I had a direct comparisons with a HK416 and heavy barrel C8 10.3 respectably and the weight was very close on that particular C8 to the 416 I had at the time. As I will state firearms can be made by whatever company for that specific contract so it is hard at times to compare which is best and then through in cost for the buyer and that can be a determining factor as well. Although limited in comparing them scientifically at the time in this one instance you could see the HK was far ahead. I still would have no problem using either of them in practically all situation imaginable.
I dont buy or own cheap crap, that being said, Ive never shot a 416 so dont know, given my salary and priorities, i will likely never shoot one.
Its great to talk about an ultra expensive unobtainium rifle, but the reality is 99.99% of cgn has never shot one. I handled a used mr223 once at reliable, considered buying it for 4 minutes, then left.
I have probably as much chance of buying one of the unicorn NR AR10 than ever buying a 416.
Its great to talk about an ultra expensive unobtainium rifle, but the reality is 99.99% of cgn has never shot one. I handled a used mr223 once at reliable, considered buying it for 4 minutes, then left.
I have probably as much chance of buying one of the unicorn NR AR10 than ever buying a 416.
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In the case of HK most of the premium you're paying for is the barrel. They have superior barrel materials and manufacturing technology. They also have very strict quality control.
In the case of the HK416 program, HK also made a number of engineering upgrades to the traditional M4 platform. These are little things based on end-user feedback. It is often in the form of small dimensional adjustments and improved tolerances. An example is fixing carrier tilt issues. These are subtle things that most people wouldn't notice without knowledge that it was done.
Despite the lion's share of the premium being barrel, there is also a significant portion that is purely importation fee related and mark-up for Canadian end-users because supply is tightly controlled with very little competition.
In the case of the HK416 program, HK also made a number of engineering upgrades to the traditional M4 platform. These are little things based on end-user feedback. It is often in the form of small dimensional adjustments and improved tolerances. An example is fixing carrier tilt issues. These are subtle things that most people wouldn't notice without knowledge that it was done.
Despite the lion's share of the premium being barrel, there is also a significant portion that is purely importation fee related and mark-up for Canadian end-users because supply is tightly controlled with very little competition.
End-users very often subject candidate systems to very rigorous testing programs. The specs for the firearm and the performance expectations are known to the manufacturers.
When HK is aware of the specs and the testing criteria, and they design the platform to these specs, they almost certainly win. There are cases where they have not had time to design/modify for the specific test, have submitted guns in the applicable category that they had lying around, and still won. That says a lot. An example is the 417. I can't recall who's procurement/order this was for.
When HK is aware of the specs and the testing criteria, and they design the platform to these specs, they almost certainly win. There are cases where they have not had time to design/modify for the specific test, have submitted guns in the applicable category that they had lying around, and still won. That says a lot. An example is the 417. I can't recall who's procurement/order this was for.
IMO there's a lot of times when you quickly stop paying for a products quality and start paying for the name.
HK is huge on charging retarded amounts of money thanks to their name. I can't remember the part it was but basically on any other AR it was a $75-$100 piece and for an HK version it was over $800.
There also seems to be companies that spring up over night and think if they have a cool name and jack their prices up people will pay big. Sadly I think they're often right.
HK is huge on charging retarded amounts of money thanks to their name. I can't remember the part it was but basically on any other AR it was a $75-$100 piece and for an HK version it was over $800.
There also seems to be companies that spring up over night and think if they have a cool name and jack their prices up people will pay big. Sadly I think they're often right.
While I understand what you're saying, I'm guessing that manufacturing in Germany is more expensive than say China/US. That's just an example.Given the "proprietary" nature of most of the HK product line, that "builds" in additional costs.
- Location
- The Orion Arm
The very 1st AR I ever built used 100% Spike's parts. I've used it hard for the past 4 years or so and never once had a bobble. I find it just as accurate as my CC SA20 and my buddy's KAC that I shoot from time to time.
Will it stand up to the same punishment? Probably not. But for the average 3 gun/CQB match it's more than enough. I doubt most of us will ever need the level of reliability the CC and HKs can deliver, and the slight difference in MOA (if there is one) at a set distance probably doesn't amount to much anyways.
Just my nickel.
Will it stand up to the same punishment? Probably not. But for the average 3 gun/CQB match it's more than enough. I doubt most of us will ever need the level of reliability the CC and HKs can deliver, and the slight difference in MOA (if there is one) at a set distance probably doesn't amount to much anyways.
Just my nickel.
And so it begins. LOL
Actually a genuine question. I just want to know how the rifle has done WRT accuracy and barrel wear. I never said I don't like HK. I said I prefer PWS over HK.
-S.
You're right, the cost of doing business in Germany is much higher, there are also other challenges as well, especially for firearms manufacturers. For example, over here in NA, when we decide to make a barrel, a bloke with a bit of know-how and the right tools can build one without too much trouble. In Germany you have to have the plans drawn up, examined by an engineer, then they have to supervise the prototype's manufacture, then it's off to a proving house to have it tested to it's limit. Everything is over engineered because of two things, 1). the law 2). it's very Teutonic.
-S.
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
You can double the cost is the quest for 5% more accuracy, reliability or durability. You might even get it.
Lack of understanding what quality means comes from the cycle of average Canadian gun ownership. Buy, fire couple of rounds (usually from the bench), take some cool pictures, put some accessories on your firearm. Fire it couple more times, buy more accessories. Sell on EE for as much as possible. That's it. No wonder that Norincos are so popular.
