Southern Alberta Tavor Course: It's Happening!

fenceline said:
No aftermarket triggers failed on the course. That was a general reference to other failures that have been seen with after market triggers. Tvpp showed ways to lighten the stock trigger without replacing the stock trigger pack. To around 6lbs.

Needless to say, I won't be changing my trigger system, be it the trigger pack, trigger, or anything in between. Personal preference. The cost isn't justified for me YMMV.
Click to expand...

onetwentyish said:
This is quite disturbing. Where did this come from? I know TVPP's Timney broke, as have many in the US and a few in Canada, but I have only heard of one instance where a Giessele broke and it was chalked up to some how slipping through the QC xray checks of the cast hammers.

Fun fact: Giessele hammers are cast in the same foundry with the same metal, using the same process as the OEM IWI Israel hammers. I doubt you will see any Geissles fail unless its a fluke.
Click to expand...

See post above. I believe he was talking about the broken triggers you just referenced as they were the ones noted by Tvpp on the course.

There does appear to be a different wear pattern between the two styles of bolt groups.
 
I think I am going to start a rifle weigh in thread in the black rifles forum. I always try to keep my systems light, but its so easy to add crap on that you dont use.

I like to strike a balance of weight vs function. I am very pleased with how my Tav has turned out.

My Tavor features the following changes:
-Manticore curved buttpad
-Manticore Luma Safeties (large & slim)
-Fab-defense Tar-Podium
-Giessele Super Sabra sear/hammer pack
-Giessele Lightning Bow
-Gear Head Works front sight post
-Factory mod rail
-Surefire 600u Scout light and tape switch
-front and rear retro-fitted QD cups
-removed ejection port cover (replaced with another ejection port frame)
-double Galloway angled shell deflectors (left and right side)
-Lantac Dragon brake

Weight with a QD Mepro M21: 9lbs 5oz
Weight with an Elcan Specter DR 1-4x: 9lbs 15oz.
Trigger break averages at 3.5lbs.

Very impressive weight considering it has an optic, BUIS, weapon light, and a bipod. TVPP was sure I would need the fish hook to weigh it with the Elcan. Lol proved him wrong ;)

At the end of the day though, the rifle still fealt heavy after doing all those drills.
 
Last edited:
Me too. I was hobbling around Calgary today haha...

It was good to meet everyone! I like my tavor even more after running it in that class. I'm in for the next one (but I'm going to be in better shape)!

Also, I won't be changing the trigger either. Works fine, and my trigger pull was a hair over 10lb.

My rifle, basically stock with a vickers sling and an Eotech 512 was less than an ounce over 9lb.
 
Last edited:
Still alive said:
How was Lovie's personal Tavor set up? Was her trigger stock?
Did you guys end up with the angled mag coupler for quick mag changes? Or was the heel bump technique taught?
Click to expand...

Lovie had a Tavor when she was in the IDF. An x95 if i recall correctly. She used TVPP'S Tavor. She was surprised to see so many people changing the triggers. She saw no issues with the stock trigger.

The heal bump technique for removing the mag is not an IDF practice. It's a civilian "look at what I just thought up" gimmick. Most shooters were using a mag couple. Single mag changes from a pouch.
 
fenceline said:
Lovie had a Tavor when she was in the IDF. An x95 if i recall correctly. She used TVPP'S Tavor. She was surprised to see so many people changing the triggers. She saw no issues with the stock trigger.

The heal bump technique for removing the mag is not an IDF practice. It's a civilian "look at what I just thought up" gimmick. Most shooters were using a mag couple. Single mag changes from a pouch.
Click to expand...

She must have loved TVPP's gun! Or 120ish!
I did a Tavor thread 5 months ago with my impressions. Take a peek at it. You'll see what I said about the stock trigger.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1254592-TAVOR-Lessons-learnt!
I can see how the heel bump is more tactical than practical!!
 
Still alive said:
She must have loved TVPP's gun! Or 120ish!
I did a Tavor thread 5 months ago with my impressions. Take a peek at it. You'll see what I said about the stock trigger.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1254592-TAVOR-Lessons-learnt!
I can see how the heel bump is more tactical than practical!!
Click to expand...

She said that Tvpp tavor was similar in overall size to hers, but complained about his 6lb trigger mods which deleted the two stage trigger and trigger reset. So "must have loved" might be a strong assumption.

If something isn't practical, it is less than tactical. Practical wins gun fights. Fancy does not.
 
Yup. However, I am very thankful that we do not have to stay to IDF Spec, as I personally much prefer the light 2 stage AR feeling Giessele I have now, and the curved buttpad.

The biggest gripe I had about the course, is she is a drill seargent, and rather than working with or paracticing with any of the different set up Tavors in different ways, all had to be run like they are IDF spec. Thats where I can see this course differentiates from something like a Haley Strategic Course.

Lets be very clear: this was an IDF Basic Tavor Training course, and is based 100% on IDF use of IDF issued rifles. As fenceline said, it was as much of a cultural taste as it was a shooting course. I can tell you I would have bruised ribs like crazy if I was in the IDF, I think alot of us would have. They train hard untill they have it perfect.
 
onetwentyish said:
The biggest gripe I had about the course, is she is a drill seargent, and rather than working with or paracticing with any of the different set up Tavors in different ways, all had to be run like they are IDF spec. Thats where I can see this course differentiates from something like a Haley Strategic Course.
Click to expand...

The balance between IDF and civilian setup is still something we're tinkering with for sure. Some of that'll be phase II. We're trying to settle a debate on where a course ends and a competitive shoot begins. ;)

But lots of guys ran their upgraded rifles just fine this weekend!

XT6qlbV.jpg
 
Yup, however by removing the ejection port cover, I now check the closer ejection port when the mag runs dry, when there is a stoppage, or when doing a press check.

Speaking of press checks: That is one thing the IDF does that annoys me so MUCH! Who does a press check after every time you re-insert a magazine?! Might as well do a press check after every round to make sure it successfully stripped the next round.

I get doing a press check upon intial loading/charging sequence or after clearing a stoppage (especially if reusing the mag that initiated the stoppage) but after every mag is ridiculous and basically nullifies the need for a bolt hold open device since you will be required to pull on the charging handle anyways, and in my opinion put your rifle at risk of not having the bolt seat all the way back down after only letting it fly home from half way, specifically if its dirty.

Another thing that bugged me was that they called a reload a stoppage. Its a normal rifle function that is meant to happen...
 
I liked the approach of trying to focus on the IDF methods. I think that's the point of having an IDF firearms instructor teach the course. It is what Lovie knows and she does it well. The farther you get away from that the less unique this course becomes. I think that would be a loss.

I think calling a mag dry reload a stoppage drill isn't a big deal. The gun stopped working. It stopped. Fix it. I get that.

Doing a press check after every reload and stoppage.... I have to agree that doesn't make much sense to me. I can tap and rack again faster than press checking. But that is the idf way so I'm glad it was taught that way.

As I mentioned before, for me courses are about learning the methods presented by the instructor. As a good student I try to maintain an open mind and follow the teachings as they are taught. Afterwards, as a shooter I analyze what I was taught then fit it in to the rest of what I know.

The more tools in the tool box the better, even if I end up not needing to use them individually all the time or much at all.
 
I agree 100%, just not what I was expecting going into the course. I cant wait to recieve more north american style themed training to blend the 2 styles.

I just want others to know when they go into this course in the future (although it may change between now and then) that this course is IDF Basic Tavor 101.

It was a very neat experience, would definitely do it again and if there is an advanced course in the future I will certainly be interested.
 
fenceline said:
I think calling a mag dry reload a stoppage drill isn't a big deal. The gun stopped working. It stopped. Fix it. I get that.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure the CF treats it that way too. Can someone confirm?

Think in terms of 3 types of stoppages: bolt forward, bolt locked to the rear, bolt somewhere messy in between
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom