I know this has been talked about but I'll ask any how. If you where to get a set of dies would you go full length or neck sizing. I have read the differences but know what to choose. I do have some random brass and brass from friends guns that they don't keep. So I think full length is better but as goes for accuracy I don't know which is better
Full or neck sizing
- Thread starter japlume
- Start date
what's it being fired in? regardless i would opt for both if your going to use it in a bolt gun.
random brass will likely have to be full length sized to fit your bolt gun then can be necked sized after for a number of times pending how hot you load them. once it starts jamming up the bolt you would full length size and go back to neck sizing. annealing every 3-5ish reloads pending how hot the load is and quality of the brass.
If it's for a semi auto then full length size all the time.
random brass will likely have to be full length sized to fit your bolt gun then can be necked sized after for a number of times pending how hot you load them. once it starts jamming up the bolt you would full length size and go back to neck sizing. annealing every 3-5ish reloads pending how hot the load is and quality of the brass.
If it's for a semi auto then full length size all the time.
Yes, Annealling softens the case mouth so it holds into the bullets better and extends the case life. If your only hunting with the rifles then you'll get by just fine with a full length sizing die but if your after precision rounds neck sizing is the way to go. lee die's (i think rcbs does too) sells die kits with both neck sizing and full length sizing dies.
- Location
- Jameson, SK
Annealing is heating up the NECK (only the neck) of the brass to a certain temp (about 750deg) to re-establish it's suppleness. Brass becomes hard as is is stretched and resized (work-hardened). It then becomes brittle and the neck will split.
I would do a full length bushing sizing die (Like a Redding Type S with a Titanium Nitride bushing and TiN neck anvil), and a precision bullet seater (like a Forster Micrometer seating die).
NS vs FL debates rage on, but for the lowest cost, do FL. If you have the $$ then get a neck die on top of the suggestions above, and use the FL to reset/push back the shoulder as you need. You'll need a method of trimming the neck to length too. Check out the "Worlds finest trimmer".
-J.
I would do a full length bushing sizing die (Like a Redding Type S with a Titanium Nitride bushing and TiN neck anvil), and a precision bullet seater (like a Forster Micrometer seating die).
NS vs FL debates rage on, but for the lowest cost, do FL. If you have the $$ then get a neck die on top of the suggestions above, and use the FL to reset/push back the shoulder as you need. You'll need a method of trimming the neck to length too. Check out the "Worlds finest trimmer".
-J.
Below is Kevin Thomas of Team Lapua USA and prior to this worked in the Sierra ballistic testing lab and giving some very good advice.
I disagree. I'd like to see some concrete evidence of this.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Simple way to test. Separate brass by rifle fired... Chamber the empty case in your rifle. Maybe the chambers is a close fit.... maybe your chamber is bigger?
Once you know the difference, THEN you can decide what die to use to get things to fit. A die is a tool... there is nothing special, nor magic about it. Use the right tool for the job and vary the tools as needed.
I prefer to have my brass fit my chamber precisely but with just enough clearance to function under worst conditions.
Jerry
I haven't started reloading rifle ammo but have bought the dies already. In my research to date, I have found:
1. When fired from a bolt action rifle, neck sizing is the only thing that needs to be done. Reason is due to the fact that the case has been fire formed in the bolt action rifle. Full length re-sizing not required. The exception is when you pick up range brass, then a full length resizing is required.
2. When firing from a semi auto rifle, full length resize is required all the time.
Case annealing is done once every 4-5 reloads.
1. When fired from a bolt action rifle, neck sizing is the only thing that needs to be done. Reason is due to the fact that the case has been fire formed in the bolt action rifle. Full length re-sizing not required. The exception is when you pick up range brass, then a full length resizing is required.
2. When firing from a semi auto rifle, full length resize is required all the time.
Case annealing is done once every 4-5 reloads.
In just about every case I can load straighter ammo with a full length die than a neck die. Since run-out is easily measured that's fairly concrete.
- Location
- West Quebec
From a different angle if just starting out I would full size and then take it from there..
I use a FL sizer most of the time set to just kiss the shoulder, unless the rifle in question has an overly generous chamber, then I will neck size only until it needs a squeeze to fit right again.
For neck sizing I now use Lee collet dies, if I can get one in the cartridge I need it for that is.
There is no need to fully size brass with a FL sizing die unless required to chamber again, just set it up to neck size, and maybe bump the shoulder a thou or two.
For neck sizing I now use Lee collet dies, if I can get one in the cartridge I need it for that is.
There is no need to fully size brass with a FL sizing die unless required to chamber again, just set it up to neck size, and maybe bump the shoulder a thou or two.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Wrong on points 1 and 2... sorry.
In a bolt rifle, you will need to bump the shoulder AND neck size. After a few firings, the case will lengthen due to the spring in the action lock up.. stiff chambering will occur unless you bump the shoulder. Body die for that.
With a semi, it is best and safest that the sized case fits within 2 to 4 thou of the headspace for THAT rifle. And chambers can and will vary. This is for accuracy loading...not working ammo.
With reloading, it is best to understand the steps and WHAT/WHY they are done. Then you can apply whatever technique is best for the given tasks.
Sweeping generalisations may work when going to war but not for precision shooting.
Jerry
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
You might want to have a look at your neck sizing die... Lee collet die pretty much leaves the runout the same as it comes out of the chamber.
In my match rifles, that amounts to a great big ZERO.
Jerry
Mystic Precision just said two key words "match rifles" the average person with a off the shelf factory rifle and with off the shelf Remchester brass is better off full length resizing.
Below a Remington .223 case with .004 neck "AND" case wall thickness variations and they will expand more on the thin side of the case and warp when fired.
The photos above just show the average neck thickness of a five gallon bucket full of Remington .223 cases I have. And some of these Remington .223 cases had as much as .008 thickness variations in thickness. It wont even do any good to neck turn these cases because the case body is still out of alignment with the bore.
Now just think what is going to happen if you size these cases with a bushing die and having cartridges with the bullet .002 to .008 out of alignment with the bore.
I converted all my RCBS full length dies to use the Forster high mounted expander that greatly reduces expander induced neck runout. This high mounted design holds the case neck inside the neck of the die and the expander enters the case neck while it is held and "centered" within the die. Meaning this Forster die can not pull your necks off center and induce neck runout.
Below my converted RCBS die with the Forster expander unit, and this is what I use to full length resize these Remington cases for blasting/practice ammo from my AR15 carbine.
Bottom line if you do not have any tight chambered "match rifles" using Lapua brass then your better off full length resizing with your factory rifles.
Too much of what bench rest shooters do has filtered down to the average reloader and much of what bench rest shooters do will not help our factory rifles using Remchester brass. And when you full length resize your cases there is far less chance of your "average" quality cases "steering" your bullet out of alignment with the bore.
Below two different types of of runout gauges, the Hornady gauge in the rear holds a full length resized case like it would be held in the chamber. The RCBS case master gauge in the front is holding a case like a neck sized case would be held in the chamber and will indicate twice the runout than the Hornady gauge will. And our American military considers ammunition with .003 or less neck runout "match grade" ammo.
Below a Remington .223 case with .004 neck "AND" case wall thickness variations and they will expand more on the thin side of the case and warp when fired.
The photos above just show the average neck thickness of a five gallon bucket full of Remington .223 cases I have. And some of these Remington .223 cases had as much as .008 thickness variations in thickness. It wont even do any good to neck turn these cases because the case body is still out of alignment with the bore.
Now just think what is going to happen if you size these cases with a bushing die and having cartridges with the bullet .002 to .008 out of alignment with the bore.
I converted all my RCBS full length dies to use the Forster high mounted expander that greatly reduces expander induced neck runout. This high mounted design holds the case neck inside the neck of the die and the expander enters the case neck while it is held and "centered" within the die. Meaning this Forster die can not pull your necks off center and induce neck runout.
Below my converted RCBS die with the Forster expander unit, and this is what I use to full length resize these Remington cases for blasting/practice ammo from my AR15 carbine.
Bottom line if you do not have any tight chambered "match rifles" using Lapua brass then your better off full length resizing with your factory rifles.
Too much of what bench rest shooters do has filtered down to the average reloader and much of what bench rest shooters do will not help our factory rifles using Remchester brass. And when you full length resize your cases there is far less chance of your "average" quality cases "steering" your bullet out of alignment with the bore.
Below two different types of of runout gauges, the Hornady gauge in the rear holds a full length resized case like it would be held in the chamber. The RCBS case master gauge in the front is holding a case like a neck sized case would be held in the chamber and will indicate twice the runout than the Hornady gauge will. And our American military considers ammunition with .003 or less neck runout "match grade" ammo.
hunters home
CGN Regular
I would think that regardless what type of sizing you do , that at some point your cases will have to be fullength resized as mentioned earlier. In all my varmint barreled rifles, ( 25/06---22/250---7mm08---222 ) my best accuracy comes with fullength resizing.
