Wonder if governments could be lobbied for using antique breach loaders?

^^ Well said.

And I hunt in all the seasons (early bow, rifle, mid bow, muzzleloader and late bow) if I or my hunting buddy still has a tag.

I think the big "fear", from other hunters is, that all of a sudden if you open things up a little that everybody and their brother will be all over the woods shooting everything up.

In Ontario we are fortunate that a crossbow is considered "a bow" for the archery seasons. The argument in other provinces/states against their inclusion is exactly that "everyone will buy one and be all over the woods shooting every deer they see".

And I will say when any "new method" first comes into being there will be a percentage of guys/gals who jump on the wagon. I can say it's been my experience that in any given year myself and the guy I hunt with are the "only two" out bow hunting, on the crown land we hunt (in eastern Ontario, so not like we are way up in the sticks) in the early bow.

Yes, the woods fill up for the two week gun season and this year there were a couple of guys in the muzzle loading season because the gun hunt "sucked" and many didn't fill their tags.

This year our sales of bows and muzzle loaders was up at least 500% compared to the average year, but those sales occurred after the gun season. And I would suggest that 95% of those will be for sale in the used market in a year or two. Once you get away from modern rifles/shotguns, most just won't put in the effort or work to actually get good enough with those "somewhat limited" weapons.

They think because a crossbow "looks" kinda/sorta like a gun it will be easy - and the shooting part is easy, it's just getting their mind wrapped around having to get Bambi to stand still broadside at 25 yards that they don't have the patience for in many cases - or the total cleaning that is required every time you fire your muzzle loader and take if home for the day - or the no quick second shot etc etc etc.

So in the end it always is "only the diehards" that are passionate about their specific weapon that will continue to hunt outside of the regular gun hunt - the rest fall off the wagon when they realize it's really not their "style" of hunting.
 
Why not just use the Sniders, Enfields etc during the regular season? People hunt with these for the nostalgia not the ballistics.
 
Why not just use the Sniders, Enfields etc during the regular season? People hunt with these for the nostalgia not the ballistics.


Read BigUglyMan's post. It usually has little to do with nostalgia, and lots to do with hunting when others can't/won't. Like most hunters, they don't want you hunting when/where they do, if at all. It's hard to unite this community.
 
I must be a bit of a purist when it comes to the definition of Primitive weapons then. My bad, but I still fail to see how an inline constitutes a ' Primitive weapon '...I find it a stretch personally
 
I have been wondering if it would be possible to lobby provincial natural resource departments to modify the rules in muzzleloader season to allow the use of early breech loaders as well as muzzleloaders. I'm thinking of Martini Henry's, Snider Enfields, 71 Mausers, Remington Rolling blocks, Springfield trapdoors etc. These are really 100 yard guns in a hunting sense (muzzle velocities of 1300-1600 fps. They are single shot and fire large diameter bullets. Seems a fair chance for the deer, compared to the muzzleloaders available. The faster reload is offset by the the newer muzzleloaders have better speed (over 2000 fps) and often telescopic sights. Seems like the old breechloaders stack up pretty reasonably in an apples to apples comparison, so I can't see there being an "it's not fair/ethical" argument.

What are some of your thoughts? Is my reasoning off base? I'd like to hear from folks and get some opinions, so feel free to chip in.

sounds odd id just use one of my antique breech loaders during normal gun season btw a .577 snider loaded with say a .590" 450gr cast bullet pushing at around 1400fps is no laughing matter they hit like a freight train and keep on moving I would have no problem with just about anything in North America considering cartridges like the .577 snider and .577-450 were probably used in the good old ivory hunting days on much bigger animals
 
I must be a bit of a purist when it comes to the definition of Primitive weapons then. My bad, but I still fail to see how an inline constitutes a ' Primitive weapon '...I find it a stretch personally

This I can agree with....

They could have made this argument moot by either defining what a primitive weapon is better or simply calling it muzzleloader season as they do in Ontario....
 
I don't see the point in special seasons.

Just to get out at times and in places when others can't or won't. If it were all the same I would only hunt with a centerfire rifle. But some areas only allows archery some times only let you use muzzle loaders. In the end it's all about days in the field.
 
Just to get out at times and in places when others can't or won't. If it were all the same I would only hunt with a centerfire rifle. But some areas only allows archery some times only let you use muzzle loaders. In the end it's all about days in the field.


I hunt in the special seasons too, but that isn't my point. I don't see why they exist. Why should a law reward personal preference?
 
I hunt in the special seasons too, but that isn't my point. I don't see why they exist. Why should a law reward personal preference?

It doesn't allow personal preference..... It allows those of us that are willing to go the extra mile and practice with, and get proficient with alternate methods and still harvest our game....

To be honest I used to bow hunt religiously, but time to practice is limited to me now and being proficient with my "weapon" to the level I feel is required is a no go...... So for whitetail, as an example, I enjoy rifle season and black powder season.....
 
It doesn't allow personal preference..... It allows those of us that are willing to go the extra mile and practice with, and get proficient with alternate methods and still harvest our game....

Nothing stopping you, or me from using a bow or muzzleloader in the rifle season. Or even better in one long super season where everything goes. Why should one group have a lock on the nice weather, or the rut? The total harvest can be controlled by the bag limit.
 
Nothing stopping you, or me from using a bow or muzzleloader in the rifle season. Or even better in one long super season where everything goes. Why should one group have a lock on the nice weather, or the rut? The total harvest can be controlled by the bag limit.

Well... I agree... And maybe my reasons are selfish, but where I am at, it tends to separate the men from the boys.... It extends my season and in the end, assuming it is done right, the same quota of animals is harvested VS desired amount..

Where I am at, it doesn't take a genius to see the difference and I find it sad.... I hunt 400 acres for whitetail exclusively.... Opening day (always a Monday).... Shots galore around me..... Next 4 days, next to nothing...... Saturday Sunday in the middle, lots of shots...

Bottom line, there are not enough dedicated hunters out there to keep the population in check without the special seasons. The dedicated will take advantage where the others won't.......
 
Bottom line, there are not enough dedicated hunters out there to keep the population in check without the special seasons. The dedicated will take advantage where the others won't.......

Really? A bow or muzzleloader season will keep the population in check but a longer anything goes season, or increased tags to whoever wants them won't? We had many seasons where we could get fistfuls of tags and there was no shortage of takers for them.

I hunted with a bow until I wrecked my shoulder, and have hunted with a muzzleloader for almost 30 years. I'll be the first to admit that my motives were/are entirely selfish. I did it because I wanted to. Sometimes it was because I liked the weapons themselves but more often it was entirely just to game the system.
 
Really? A bow or muzzleloader season will keep the population in check but a longer anything goes season, or increased tags to whoever wants them won't? We had many seasons where we could get fistfuls of tags and there was no shortage of takers for them.

I hunted with a bow until I wrecked my shoulder, and have hunted with a muzzleloader for almost 30 years. I'll be the first to admit that my motives were/are entirely selfish. I did it because I wanted to. Sometimes it was because I liked the weapons themselves but more often it was entirely just to game the system.

We are on the same page somewhat.... But you would be surprised ( maybe not ) by the amount of hunters that consider deer season a one weekend endeavour........ It's sad
 
Nothing stopping you, or me from using a bow or muzzleloader in the rifle season. Or even better in one long super season where everything goes. Why should one group have a lock on the nice weather, or the rut? The total harvest can be controlled by the bag limit.

In southern Ontario the bush lots are often small and the farm land is plentiful and very flat. Bow hunting allows full camo. Bow hunters hunt from tree stands and ground blinds and behind natural cover. If my friend and I are hunting a 12 acre bush lot and someone walked the edge with a rifle and shot at a deer chances are he wouldn't have seen us and in such a small area the likely hood of having a bullet wiz past or through another hunter is very high. That's why they close the bow season when the shotgun and or muzzleloader seasons are held
I can't bow hunt during the controlled hunts and I'm even limited in what I can use for coyotes during those other controlled seasons. Not everyone gets to hunt in the freedom of vast expanses of land. And let's face it there are idiots in every sport. Hunting is no different. I've come across a guy in a muzzleloading only zone carrying a 30/06 hunting deer on private property he did have permission to be on
 
In southern Ontario the bush lots are often small and the farm land is plentiful and very flat. Bow hunting allows full camo. Bow hunters hunt from tree stands and ground blinds and behind natural cover. If my friend and I are hunting a 12 acre bush lot and someone walked the edge with a rifle and shot at a deer chances are he wouldn't have seen us and in such a small area the likely hood of having a bullet wiz past or through another hunter is very high. That's why they close the bow season when the shotgun and or muzzleloader seasons are held
I can't bow hunt during the controlled hunts and I'm even limited in what I can use for coyotes during those other controlled seasons. Not everyone gets to hunt in the freedom of vast expanses of land. And let's face it there are idiots in every sport. Hunting is no different. I've come across a guy in a muzzleloading only zone carrying a 30/06 hunting deer on private property he did have permission to be on

Yes remember that these are provincial regs. In saskatchewan our season is muzzloader not primitive. In saskatchewan colour requirements are based on what you are using. Not the season. Bowhunters during rifle season with camouflage is ok here. I hunt with a ML so I can hunt when it's still warm out. Otherwise I would use my rifle.
 
. That's why they close the bow season when the shotgun and or muzzleloader seasons are held

They don't close the bow season. Look in the regs, 2015 Deer Seasons, Rifles, Shotguns, Bows and Muzzle-loading guns; check the column under "Conditions ( Restrictions Only), depending on the unit, it says quite specifically, "Bows, shotguns and muzzle-loading guns only; no dogs."


I agree with Dogleg btw. There should just be "deer season", period, use whatever you want. It would be a lot less crowded and probably safer in the woods than having everybody out in the bush for the same 2 weeks of rifle season.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom