That include some parts I already have, this is a good price. All I asked was about indexing the norinco barrel, that's it. I can't believe removing a barrel and putting it back together cost over 500 alone. If that so I'll leave it alone.
A good m-14 gunsmith located in Canada...
- Thread starter MozPhoq
- Start date
That include some parts I already have, this is a good price. All I asked was about indexing the norinco barrel, that's it. I can't believe removing a barrel and putting it back together cost over 500 alone. If that so I'll leave it alone.
If a "smith" can't reindex the barrel on one of these rifles, chinese or american made, in an hour , they aren't worth sending it too. In reality, that's 85.00 to 100.00 based on 1 hour minimum shop rates.
Anyone quoting 500 to reindex a barrel should be drawn and quartered LOL
notsorichguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- The city that rhymes with fun
in my experience, doing a NM conditioning "job" to a Nork (or Springfield) rifle costs about $550 in parts alone..... Excluding the cost of a barrel. If a new barrel is required, add a minimum of $500.
I have 3 rifles in my collection that I have done this too, within the last 8 months....... One of them is a Springfield.....
I shudder to think what it would cost to have a "smith" do the work @ $85/hr....... I average 20-30 hrs if you include bedding etc...... And I think I'm getting good at this! lol
I have 3 rifles in my collection that I have done this too, within the last 8 months....... One of them is a Springfield.....
I shudder to think what it would cost to have a "smith" do the work @ $85/hr....... I average 20-30 hrs if you include bedding etc...... And I think I'm getting good at this! lol
smokestack
Regular
- Location
- Near Edmonton
Umm first... Minutes Of Angle is at 100 yards. So for example, a 2MOA gun will shoot 4" groups at 200 yards, 6" @ 300 etc.. lol
Secondly, you can bring it to a NORMAL gunsmith and ask why it isn't grouping as well as it should.
There is a plethora of other possibilities like/especially the crown.
I would DEFINITELY not run out and re-barrel a gun because it isn't grouping tight enough. Could be a loose sight even. SO many things it could be.
If you are going to spend another $500 on it just to bring it up to the quality of an off the shelf Norc, just buy a new Norc and sell the old one (with full disclosure..maybe a smith will buy it to fix).
The rest is just blithering
Either all that or I'm super confused and have my wires crossed.
I musta missed the post where it says..brought it to a smith and was told the barrel is shot.
OK now... I just got a Norinco M14 that had it's barrel shortened and threaded and had the gas system and barrel all synched-up and everything. It is PERFECT!!
I got it in a trade and everything was already done to it but the work was done by the M14 Doctor.
All the seller knew about the rifle was that the previous owner souped it all up for Heavy Metal 3-gun but that it was TOO heavy metal and so sold it before 200 rounds were sent through the bore. He hadn't even fired it himself (he did before we did the trade to confirm it shot). He also knew that the barrel was shortened by the M14Dr.
He wasn't able to tell me anything about the gasblock/system so I emailed the M14Dr to ask whether he would, as a rule, see to the barrel and gas system orientation. He said yes.
I'll tell you WHAT... I'm a machinist. I know what threads should feel like. This rifle now wears an AR-style birdcage brake and it fits/feels PERFECT and orients PERFECTLY (I know I know.. that's why they make crush washers) on the muzzle.
EVERY thing about this rifle is perfect.
The muzzle and its threads are amazing, the bore is like a MIRROR, the action pings, orientation of everything is perfect and hand TIGHT perfection, headspace is perfect, it's UTG upper and the pic rails everywhere are exactly where they should be, ALL the M-14 quirks were absolutely addressed to perfection and by the M14 Doctor.
I have a feeling y'all have issues with him? Not sure why he wasn't even mentioned on the first couple pages of this thread. I'll tell you WHAT though, I could not have done a better job of it MYSELF!!
And to the OP if you haven't already figured, the M14 and 305..the Norinco guns..well even just the M14 in general I suppose, has a lot of potential quirks and issues that are specific to the platform. Well..I'm FAR from an expert myself and am pretty new to the M14 but yeah, with the factory shortened ones at least, you're not even 50% likely to get one from the factory that has EVERYTHING right.
The M14/M305 especially but the M14/M305/M1A/Garand kinda need their OWN separate gunsmithing course.
I love my M14 but...if there was a different .308 semi-auto with detachable box mag for about the same price that was non-restricted and weighed less than a house ...I think it's got a lot to do with nostalgia and less to do with the actual merits of the firearm that makes these things popular.
Any AR10 style rifle is gonna beat the M14 imho. If you watch the In Range sand testing video..or their mud testing vid..well the M14 is a HEAVY, big, HEAVY, long, quirky, not-a-fan-of debris, and HEAVY firearm. The InRange vid doesn't say it's heavy. I think I mentioned it though.
Anyway, before you spend too much (more) on this thing..well for SURE I wouldn't go dropping another $800 on a new barrel install.
Hang this one up on the wall and spend that $ on any other .308 battle rifle.
YMMV, AFAIK, IMHO, Just my $0.02, and SEASON'S GREETINGS
Secondly, you can bring it to a NORMAL gunsmith and ask why it isn't grouping as well as it should.
There is a plethora of other possibilities like/especially the crown.
I would DEFINITELY not run out and re-barrel a gun because it isn't grouping tight enough. Could be a loose sight even. SO many things it could be.
If you are going to spend another $500 on it just to bring it up to the quality of an off the shelf Norc, just buy a new Norc and sell the old one (with full disclosure..maybe a smith will buy it to fix).
The rest is just blithering
Either all that or I'm super confused and have my wires crossed.
I musta missed the post where it says..brought it to a smith and was told the barrel is shot.
OK now... I just got a Norinco M14 that had it's barrel shortened and threaded and had the gas system and barrel all synched-up and everything. It is PERFECT!!
I got it in a trade and everything was already done to it but the work was done by the M14 Doctor.
All the seller knew about the rifle was that the previous owner souped it all up for Heavy Metal 3-gun but that it was TOO heavy metal and so sold it before 200 rounds were sent through the bore. He hadn't even fired it himself (he did before we did the trade to confirm it shot). He also knew that the barrel was shortened by the M14Dr.
He wasn't able to tell me anything about the gasblock/system so I emailed the M14Dr to ask whether he would, as a rule, see to the barrel and gas system orientation. He said yes.
I'll tell you WHAT... I'm a machinist. I know what threads should feel like. This rifle now wears an AR-style birdcage brake and it fits/feels PERFECT and orients PERFECTLY (I know I know.. that's why they make crush washers) on the muzzle.
EVERY thing about this rifle is perfect.
The muzzle and its threads are amazing, the bore is like a MIRROR, the action pings, orientation of everything is perfect and hand TIGHT perfection, headspace is perfect, it's UTG upper and the pic rails everywhere are exactly where they should be, ALL the M-14 quirks were absolutely addressed to perfection and by the M14 Doctor.
I have a feeling y'all have issues with him? Not sure why he wasn't even mentioned on the first couple pages of this thread. I'll tell you WHAT though, I could not have done a better job of it MYSELF!!
And to the OP if you haven't already figured, the M14 and 305..the Norinco guns..well even just the M14 in general I suppose, has a lot of potential quirks and issues that are specific to the platform. Well..I'm FAR from an expert myself and am pretty new to the M14 but yeah, with the factory shortened ones at least, you're not even 50% likely to get one from the factory that has EVERYTHING right.
The M14/M305 especially but the M14/M305/M1A/Garand kinda need their OWN separate gunsmithing course.
I love my M14 but...if there was a different .308 semi-auto with detachable box mag for about the same price that was non-restricted and weighed less than a house ...I think it's got a lot to do with nostalgia and less to do with the actual merits of the firearm that makes these things popular.
Any AR10 style rifle is gonna beat the M14 imho. If you watch the In Range sand testing video..or their mud testing vid..well the M14 is a HEAVY, big, HEAVY, long, quirky, not-a-fan-of debris, and HEAVY firearm. The InRange vid doesn't say it's heavy. I think I mentioned it though.
Anyway, before you spend too much (more) on this thing..well for SURE I wouldn't go dropping another $800 on a new barrel install.
Hang this one up on the wall and spend that $ on any other .308 battle rifle.
YMMV, AFAIK, IMHO, Just my $0.02, and SEASON'S GREETINGS
of course, the other side of this LOAD DEVELOPMENT- YOU CAN HAVE ALL the bells and whistles you want, but if you're using sh*tty ammo there's no point- and i'm NOT talking SURPLUS-read up on what zideker and others have done on load development and follow their recipes see how they group, and go from there- I've got 3 honest to goodness m14s that I used before we got the letter and each one of them took around 3-4000 rounds down rage with different bullets and powder- and I was using bulk bullets at the time- so I have no idea how precise those weights were- from what I can remember, zediker proposed a 173 grain bullet pushed by 43-44 grains of 742, and a cci 34 primer, in a lake city match case- now I don't have access to a lot of the componts he does/did so I subbed a 180 grain Remington bullet- it was then I found that that slug is TOO HEAVY for the m14 action causes premature wear of the locking lugs and hammer nose- went to a 165 and everything calmed down quite a bit along with a slight increase in velocity= magnum primers of course- and NOT one OF THOSE M14S shoot worth a damn using SURPLUS- even the radway green stuff
point being that every rifle is different - part of my load experimentation was using 180s was at 42 grains it wouldn't generate enough gas to cycle the bolt, at 43, it would ,but not reliably,43.9 we hit home- reliable AND accurate- and that was ONE gun- did I mention I have 3?- well, with the other 2 , you can make slight variations - start off with 43.5 and so on and interpret your data from there- my springfield can take up to 45 grains
but its a springfield- in other words MIDDLE OF THE ROAD SLOPPY- the tightest I have is a trw, which comes in at 43.5- ALL THESE LOADS ARE TOO HEAVY FOR THE M14 - change out the bullets for 165-168 and you should be gtg- but do YOUR OWN load development- i'm at 3500 feet and better and MY loads may NOT PERFORM AT AT YOUR ALTITUDE
All 3 rifles are standard USGI FIBERGLAS STOCKS, 4X12 BUSHNELL ELITE 3200 scopes x44- and in various mounts- 3rd gen springs, a usgi, and a 2nd springy
point being that every rifle is different - part of my load experimentation was using 180s was at 42 grains it wouldn't generate enough gas to cycle the bolt, at 43, it would ,but not reliably,43.9 we hit home- reliable AND accurate- and that was ONE gun- did I mention I have 3?- well, with the other 2 , you can make slight variations - start off with 43.5 and so on and interpret your data from there- my springfield can take up to 45 grains
but its a springfield- in other words MIDDLE OF THE ROAD SLOPPY- the tightest I have is a trw, which comes in at 43.5- ALL THESE LOADS ARE TOO HEAVY FOR THE M14 - change out the bullets for 165-168 and you should be gtg- but do YOUR OWN load development- i'm at 3500 feet and better and MY loads may NOT PERFORM AT AT YOUR ALTITUDE
All 3 rifles are standard USGI FIBERGLAS STOCKS, 4X12 BUSHNELL ELITE 3200 scopes x44- and in various mounts- 3rd gen springs, a usgi, and a 2nd springy
now he just needs a DODGE TRUCK to go along with being re-tired
seriously thogh, the m14 is a platform that can turn your hair grey and become an obsession- but if you understand the GARAND , it's not a far go to m14- but don't expect better than GARAND accuracy out of it unless you do load development and tweeking
seriously thogh, the m14 is a platform that can turn your hair grey and become an obsession- but if you understand the GARAND , it's not a far go to m14- but don't expect better than GARAND accuracy out of it unless you do load development and tweeking
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notsorichguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- The city that rhymes with fun
I dunno about that..... Seems to me "45" is a bit to discerning to be a mopar lover!
Cheers!
This is the easiest thing to fix of all, it's only 5 steps. I don't know why it's not a sticky:
Step 1: Eat some steak
Step2: Put your purse down
Step 3: Do a push-up or two
Step 4: Repeat "he ain't heavy, he's my brother"
Step 5: Shoot your new and improved lightweight m1a
I have a weakness for those 1st gen cummins dodge diesels...
I'm kinda starting a collection of trucks to eventually strip em down and build one awesome truck.
Can't beat that 1st gen 5.9 cummins!
What's hard to believe even for me is.... I actually sold my jeep.... My wife can't believe it LOL
The problem is everyone else does as well. The engines are very popular with gearheads (not the trucks, just the engines) and their value goes up faster than ammo prices.
Yes indeed we are!! I've got a 2009 you did the work to a few years back (just before the shorties started coming in) and it shoots great!!! The trigger job, compared to the original trigger, is like night and day!!
I wish you were still doing that work Doc, I'd send you a 22" barrel version for the accurizing package with the NM guide rod installed!!!
Indeed, yer right hehehe
I paid 4800 for a "parts truck" , had no box. Rusted out rear spring perches, no front drive shaft... But .... 5.9 , 1st gen (91) with 210,000K and a fresh rebuilt getrag 5speed 4x4 tranny t-case.
My runner is a fire engine red , completely stock 91 , 3spd auto. Love it
But back to M14 smithin.... Doubt I'll ever do that again , too much stress and while the vast majority of customers were pleased with the work.... I failed a lot of people when it came to meeting expected timelines and had too much difficulty keeping up with the bench and keeping customers informed. I think it's just better for me to refer folks to Tactical Ordnance.
It is good to hear feedback on my work from time to time and I'm glad you guys are happy and that the rifles are still running nice
eaglesnester
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I had a sever bump fire problem with my M305 and it failed the hammer following test. Sent it to Tac Ord and Casey found the problem right away. It was a hammer spring shroud that he replaced. The rifle now functions perfect. Send your M305 to Tac Ord. There are not many smiths that could find that problem and correct it.
I called Tac Ord but they said they have no time before at least March. What I will do is follow the recommendations of some people here and have the present barrel recrowned. Then I will validate my optics. If this still doesn't work I will seek other options.
It is sitting flush, but no I have otherwise not attempted to tweak it. For the simple reason that, as playing with loads, these are refinements that I work once the gun is steady. However bad it is. Know what I mean? I feel like there is fundamentally something odd and I will find it. Then I will spend winter effin around details for the pure fun of it.
