Full Length Sized 308 Won't Chamber

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TheNewShooter

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Hi everyone,

I'm new to reloading and have been attempting to make some 308 rounds but the brass I am decapping/resizing won't chamber in my Tikka T3 Varmint. Some (very few) of the brass will chamber in my winchester model 88 but none that have gone through the die will chamber in the Tikka. The bolt appears to go all the way forward but will not rotate and lock. I've fired factory rounds and some other reloads (from family) through it no problem so I know it must be whatever I am doing. I believe I have the Lee Pace Setter 308 dies and an RCBS shell holder in a Lee breech lock press with RCBS Case Lube 2. It was also trimmed down to about 2.008" with the Lee cutter.

I initially screwed up when sizing the brass, as I screwed in the die until it contacted the shell holder but didn't rotate it another 1/4 turn as the instructions (which I don't have because I got it used) state. But even after running the brass through again, and even trying rotating it up to 2 full turns after contact with the shell holder as a test, the brass still won't chamber. I've been measuring new shells, fired brass that's not resized and this brass and I believe the only dimension that may be responsible is the distance from the base of the case to where it starts to neck down. It is difficult to measure accurately, but standing two cases side by side it almost seems like the resized cases don't neck down as sharply as some others.

I have a Lyman headspace gauge on the way but I was hoping some of you experienced reloaders may be able to diagnose what I am doing wrong?

Thanks!
 
Try one without the cam over , just have the dies barely touching .Just a thought .Ive only got a bit over a yr in so take that with a grain of salt:)
 
The Lee Breech Lock press does not have a cam over feature like RCBS, Hornady etc.

When you size your brass, with the ram all the way up, check and see if your can see daylight between the shell holder and die. If you can you may not be sizing the case fully. If they are, could be a bad die or shell plate? You can remove some material off the top of the shell plate by placing some 400grit emery wet/dry sandpaper on a flat surface and rubbing the shell holder on it to remove a fine amount of material at a time and testing it. Ideal would be having a headspace gauge like the Hornady etc and confirming the cases are properly sized.

I take it factory ammo chambers without problems?

Edit: Just reread it noticed you purchased a headspace gauge. Wait for it to arrive before mucking around with the shell holder etc.
 
Either remove some from the bottom of the die or the top of the shellholder.. problem solved.

Odds are you have a "tall" shellholder. Lee FL sizers are typically at min SAAMI spec so I suspect that you aren't able to get the case deep enough into the die to size fully. If you have a friend with another brand of Shell holder, give it a try.

2 to 5 thou is likely all that is needed for proper function.

Another thing to check is are there any obvious sizing/rub marks around the web are of the case when it comes out of the die? If this brass was fired in a semi, there is a good chance, the base is overly bulged and may need a small base die to reform???

Measure the cases above the extractor groove and if much over 0.473", you have a second issue to address.

Jerry
 
Thanks everyone, I will wait until Friday for the headspace gauge to show up and see what that tells me but I think Jerry and Trinimon are right. About 50 pieces are assorted winchester/remington brass only fired through a bolt gun but I bought 300 pieces of once fired 7.62 from Budget Shooter Supply that was clearly shot through an auto. With some of those ones, there is a faint horizontal line near the base where it looks like the sizing stopped but I haven't done it before so I wasn't sure if that is normal. I will measure some when I get home but if I recall I think they were near that size.

Should I just buy a new die set? I'd like to start just neck sizing once it has all been fire formed but I need to properly FL resize it before then. Any recommendations?

Thanks!
 
Lee dies pretty much fall between other manufacturers FL specs and small base. Lee states that you don't need small base dies if you're using Lee. Try a Lee shell holder. I have both RGB and Deluxe Lee .308 die sets and both .308 FL dies size cases properly.
 
As a new shooter, the safest and quickest path to success is to use factory ammo and reload that brass OR start with new brass.

When you are comfy with the reloading process, THEN review the cases you have now with an experienced eye.

There is no way to tell you what you need as there are many small things to look for you simply don't know about AND don't have the tooling to check. Yes, you will likely need other dies to get things back into spec for this rifle.

Unless you must use this brass, just use new stuff and learn... not worry.

Jerry
 
This is a fairly common issue when using cases that were fired in a different rifle. I only use new cases or cases fired in that rifle, to avoid such issues.
 
Get yourself an absolute flat surfce, I use a granite tile. Get some 600 sand paper or emery cloth. Put your shell holder face down. Work the shell holder in a figure eight pattern...carefully. Measure often, I have taken a few thou off this way to make ammo for a tight chambered gun I have.

For the cost of a shell holder, try it.

Could also try annealing your cases first.
 
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=172322

The above link explains the measuring basics.

Before you get too far ahead of yourself, it may be time to get back to basics. I have done most if not all the tricks in the above posts, and you may have to do some, but before you do you need to identify the problem.

First, "most" dies do a pretty adequate job of making the brass smaller than "ammunition max" (see SAAMI specs). That being said, IF you use fired cases from another rifle, little differences can make chambering hard, if not impossible. Remember the first rule of handloading; "Always use cases that have been fired in your gun". That rule is there for a reason, and I think you have discovered that reason.

You are correct in your adjusting of the resize die, 1/4 or + and when you size a case, no daylight between the shell holder and die. The LEE press does not cam over, therefore you are at a disadvantage, cam over is a feedback, lets you know when you have reached the end of the stroke. I started on a Rock Chucker almost 40 years ago, and I have tried a LEE, and for me, the lack of cam over feedback is an abomination to my senses. And besides the "feel" it lacks the mechanical advantage which occurs just as you cam over.

A Lyman gauge is a good tool, I have several and I use them in conjunction with a Hornady L-N-L Headspace gauge.

A case that has been fired in your rifle is a good reference, as every dimension of a resized case needs to be no bigger than it.

Chambering a smoked case, good hint, a visual comparison, lets you zero in on the problem.

Also, some cases fired in a semi-auto, cannot be resized satisfactorily in a conventional die, a roll sizer is required.

One step at a time, and beware, the 308, 7.62 NATO, can be one of the more obstinate reloading challenges you can face, remember rule 1: "Always use cases that have been fired in your gun".

I recently had an issue with one of my 30-06 rifles, cases from gun A, chambered very hard in gun B, in spite of a FL resized case. The die would size a B case OK, but an a would only fit in an A. My second die did OK, except it really over resized an A case for the A gun. I bought a 3rd die, and it will do both. The critical dimension was the last 1/2 inch of the case, the PRE on A was greater than the PRE in B.

Explaining all the nuances of reloading takes a book, luckily there are a few good ones out there.

I would not lap a die or shell holder until I was sure that is what was required, most dies move the shoulder back enough (or too much) as is, really.
 
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If the chamber in your Tikka T3 308Win heavy bbl is like the chambers in both of my T3s and also the T3 Battue I sold in 308win they are on the tight side and require small base dies. The one T3 I have in 6.5x55 will accept neck resized only to a point. The 223rem requires full length resizing to feed reliably.

That being said, it sounds to me like you may be setting your sizing die to low and pushing back the shoulder, which may be causing your case to expand in the area just below the shoulder or even right on the shoulder. Try backing off your die one full turn from where it meets the shell head holder. Use a felt pen that is dark in color to mark the top of the shoulder where it meets the neck and down to the case body. This will indicate how far your die is sizing the case. Just touching the shoulder enough to smudge the ink is perfect for most chambers.
 
Isn't this situation pointing to brass memory?
I would do as mentioned and start with new brass, and only use it in that gun.
Worked for me.
 
I will be home in a couple hours and will try a couple of the suggestions and more thoroughly measure the brass and note which cycles through which rifle and let you guys know. I'll just summarize a few things about it:

-it is all fired, empty brass
-have 20 pieces factory brass fired only through this tikka
-have ~15 pieces that were fired through winchester model 88, reloaded (unknown sizing method), then fired through tikka (some were tight but all chambered)
-have ~ 40 pieces fired through winchester then FL resized by me (won't chamber in tikka, will check winchester). foolishly primed ~30 before trying to chamber
-have ~250 once fired 7.62 cases I ran through my die

Unfortunately I didn't try to chamber the brass before running all of these cases through my die, hopefully I didn't ruin them. I will try using the same resizing method and use a marker on one of the cases fired only through my rifle and see what happens. It is interesting that may of the reloads made for the winchester fired through the tikka just fine but others that have a different bullet won't come close to chambering even though they are still under the max overall length.

Thanks everyone!
 
bearhunter said:
If the chamber in your Tikka T3 308Win heavy bbl is like the chambers in both of my T3s and also the T3 Battue I sold in 308win they are on the tight side and require small base dies. The one T3 I have in 6.5x55 will accept neck resized only to a point. The 223rem requires full length resizing to feed reliably.

That being said, it sounds to me like you may be setting your sizing die to low and pushing back the shoulder, which may be causing your case to expand in the area just below the shoulder or even right on the shoulder. Try backing off your die one full turn from where it meets the shell head holder. Use a felt pen that is dark in color to mark the top of the shoulder where it meets the neck and down to the case body. This will indicate how far your die is sizing the case. Just touching the shoulder enough to smudge the ink is perfect for most chambers.
Click to expand...

How is this even possible??? you are using proper STEEL dies aren't you?

Jerry
 
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