mississaugagunnut
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tagged for interest as well
I have also had a negative experience with this manufacture.
I have also had a negative experience with this manufacture.
Bought my first AR - NEA in 7.62x39
- Thread starter TheWhole9Yards
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Similar issue?
PitBull1973
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To the OP , when you bought this rifle did the bill or any of the packaging say it was indeed a gen 2
Listing on the website described it as GEN2. They still have a few on their site with the exact same description.
OUCH! I'm thinking the cam pin went, which caused the bolt to not be able to rotate and come out of battery which caused the barrel extension to fail. Either way, ####ty deal to have something fail that quickly. You have my sympathies
This is just my opinion but there are a couple of factors to consider here. One is that this highlights the caution required when building any AR in this caliber do to the fact these rifles are stretched to their limits when there is the need to cut the bolt down to fit the head. Also a tapered cartridge of this sort is ideal for reliability when used in a red rifle but can cause undo stress on an already weakened bolt. I know many have had zero issues with NEA and other makes however there are many reports of 7.62 x 39 AR failures.
Secondly the picture of the Ammo can filled with a variety of steel case bulk ammo scares the hell out of me. Personally I do not trust steel case and never ever use it in my AR's. The quality from the suppliers of bulk ammo is suspect at best. I have randomly pulled bullets and weighed the charges for a comparison and found a wide variation between many cartridge of the identical brands. Some of my fellow shooters will pull and adjust the charges as an experiment to observe how the accuracy is affected with surprising results.
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OUCH! I'm thinking the cam pin went, which caused the bolt to not be able to rotate and come out of battery which caused the barrel extension to fail. Either way, ####ty deal to have something fail that quickly. You have my sympathies
The thing is, the barrel extension should not fail if the bolt doesn't unlock.
Example, 'single shot' AR15s where the gas system is removed to prevent semi-auto fire
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At the very least it is an indication as to the importance of wearing proper safety glasses or any safety eye wear when shooting. Far too many people complain about not being able to see from the sweat or condensation. Trying seeing without any eyes then!
This is a good point. While it's hard to see in the video, there does seem to be sa strong extractor imprint on the base of the failed round. Also, the case seems to be bulged however this may only be an artifact of lighting. It would be worthwhile thinking about over pressure ammo.
Wowsers! Glad you're ok. I was thinking seriously of building an NEA 7.62 rifle, already have a stripped lower from them. Sure I've read enough threads before this one to put a question mark in my mind, but I think this one is the clincher.
Think I'll do as others have mentioned and go WW or cmmg.
Think I'll do as others have mentioned and go WW or cmmg.
I thought of that, but there is a difference with the bolt in battery, holding against the pressure in the chamber from the round going off VS the cam pin breaking, resulting in the gas system dumping gas in to the BCG, and the BCG pulling rearward on a bolt locked in to battery and also under pressure in the chamber. How much of a difference? I have no idea, but in a properly functioning AR, the BCG does not pull the bolt rearward with the bolt locked in battery with any load like this rifle would have if the cam pin broke.
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Just my opinion as I don't have all the facts.
If that was indeed an over pressure round causing a catastrophic bolt failure I think some of you are jumping to conclusion.
There are pics of many good bolt actions wrecked because of this. So, if indeed this is the case with that round and the NEA, the gun held up very well.
Calling the gun a POS is not necessarily correct, in fact the shooter survived and the gun is repairable whereas those bolt actions I've seen were wrecked beyond repair.
From what I read the buyer got a Gen 1 which are problematic, not a Gen 2. The retailer is at fault here and now the manufacturer has to repair it.
If that was indeed an over pressure round causing a catastrophic bolt failure I think some of you are jumping to conclusion.
There are pics of many good bolt actions wrecked because of this. So, if indeed this is the case with that round and the NEA, the gun held up very well.
Calling the gun a POS is not necessarily correct, in fact the shooter survived and the gun is repairable whereas those bolt actions I've seen were wrecked beyond repair.
From what I read the buyer got a Gen 1 which are problematic, not a Gen 2. The retailer is at fault here and now the manufacturer has to repair it.
If the argument is that the momentum of the bolt traveling backward at higher velocity (due to the failed cam-pin) caused the barrel extension to fail, I am somewhat skeptical. The rearward carrier velocity from a correctly working BCG is still significant (while I'm guessing I'd say at least 80% of one with an broken cam-pin) and the barrel extension and lugs need to withstand this for thousands of cycles under high temperature.
Mustang979 - What type of ammo was being used? Might it have been MFS?
Some good high-res pics of the shell in question (case base and side profile) might be help us narrow things down.
PitBull1973
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Well then , when Wes gets back go speak with him and tell him you want a gen 2
It is significant, I agree with you 100%. But with a working cam pin, that energy is NOT imparted on the barrel extension (the bolt rotates and is unlocked before any rearward energy is imparted on the bolt). In this case, once the cam pin breaks, that energy pulls the BCG rearward and the bolt isn't unlocked or rotated from the firing position, so that energy gets dumped in to the barrel extension and well you see how that failed by having the teeth torn out. IMO The cam pin failure led to the barrel extension failing. Whether the barrel extension should have failed once the cam pin did is another interesting question, and I am afraid the answer is most likely that it shouldn't have.
I have no idea what ammo was being used, I'm monday morning quarterbacking it based on the carnage in the video
I'll touch on couple points here:
- The event wasn't as dramatic as those videos posted above, just a lot of smoke and I took the charging handle to the face. No noticeable difference in recoil.
- As mentioned by someone all ready, money was well spent on my Smith Mil-spec shooting glasses, nobody should be shooting anything without eye protection. Don't cheap out!
- The casing is not deformed in any way, colour is different due to residue.
- I'm in the "cam pin failure" camp for this event. I'm not saying this because I think I'm suddenly an AR guru, however looking at all the damage and evidence it appears the bolt was unable to rotate out and weak components failed to hold it together. If I'm correct, I am in awe of how much pressure the gas system actually transfers (or how incredibly weak the barrel lugs were). Although the cam pin was broken, the way in which it failed allowed it to hold the bolt in place, leading me to believe it failed enough to not allow rotation, but strong enough to yank the barrel lugs out. When I finally got the BCG out of the upper the bolt was locked in the rearward position.
- Looking up "over pressured ammunition in AR" with google shows severe damage to the upper and lower receivers. My damage is cosmetic in comparison. Based on the failures I see in other ARs from over pressured rounds I'm not sure my rifle would look this good if it had experienced that. That being said I'm sure there are different levels of over pressure.
I really appreciate everyone's feedback. As mentioned in my original post I'm new to ARs - I've certainly learned even more about them in the last few days trying to understand this event.
Keep the comments coming.
- The event wasn't as dramatic as those videos posted above, just a lot of smoke and I took the charging handle to the face. No noticeable difference in recoil.
- As mentioned by someone all ready, money was well spent on my Smith Mil-spec shooting glasses, nobody should be shooting anything without eye protection. Don't cheap out!
- The casing is not deformed in any way, colour is different due to residue.
- I'm in the "cam pin failure" camp for this event. I'm not saying this because I think I'm suddenly an AR guru, however looking at all the damage and evidence it appears the bolt was unable to rotate out and weak components failed to hold it together. If I'm correct, I am in awe of how much pressure the gas system actually transfers (or how incredibly weak the barrel lugs were). Although the cam pin was broken, the way in which it failed allowed it to hold the bolt in place, leading me to believe it failed enough to not allow rotation, but strong enough to yank the barrel lugs out. When I finally got the BCG out of the upper the bolt was locked in the rearward position.
- Looking up "over pressured ammunition in AR" with google shows severe damage to the upper and lower receivers. My damage is cosmetic in comparison. Based on the failures I see in other ARs from over pressured rounds I'm not sure my rifle would look this good if it had experienced that. That being said I'm sure there are different levels of over pressure.
I really appreciate everyone's feedback. As mentioned in my original post I'm new to ARs - I've certainly learned even more about them in the last few days trying to understand this event.
Keep the comments coming.
I've experienced an issue very similar to this on a number of occasions. The issue was caused by an over hardened barrel extension due to a poor heat treatment. The pressure from the round caused the barrel extension to crack/shatter and rather than containing the energy, it pushed backwards and broke the cam pin and slammed your face. I'm surprised the mag didn't explode out the bottom as usually the result of a broken barrel extension will be a broken bolt with a broken magazine.
I'm in the 'improperly heat treated/manufactured barrel extension' camp.
The bolt/barrel extension contains the full pressure upon the round igniting. The bolt carrier doesn't even begin to move until the round has exited the barrel (most people don't believe that but it's true).
Seeing as the 7.62x39 Ar15 bolt is the weak link in the system (due to the lugs being made weaker/bolt face being opened up to fit the round), if this damage was cause by the cam pin not unlocking the bolt, one would expect the lugs to have sheared off. That didn't happen.
The 'ring' containing the lugs on hte B.E. sheared completely off at the point it meets the inside diameter of the B.E.
So, either too sharp a corner on the inside of the B.E. or improper heat treatment/material.
I think the cam pin failed as a result of the B.E. failing, not that it was the cause.
.......can you elaborate on this statement.....
With what brand AR(s)? A barrel extension failing is not exactly the most common of occurances.
The bolt/barrel extension contains the full pressure upon the round igniting. The bolt carrier doesn't even begin to move until the round has exited the barrel (most people don't believe that but it's true).
Seeing as the 7.62x39 Ar15 bolt is the weak link in the system (due to the lugs being made weaker/bolt face being opened up to fit the round), if this damage was cause by the cam pin not unlocking the bolt, one would expect the lugs to have sheared off. That didn't happen.
The 'ring' containing the lugs on hte B.E. sheared completely off at the point it meets the inside diameter of the B.E.
So, either too sharp a corner on the inside of the B.E. or improper heat treatment/material.
I think the cam pin failed as a result of the B.E. failing, not that it was the cause.
.......can you elaborate on this statement..... With what brand AR(s)? A barrel extension failing is not exactly the most common of occurances.
