Sheep & goat cartridge and mountain hunting rifle selection

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Omenator

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I got to doing some thinking, and I'm noticing a bit of a hole in my hunting rifle quiver. I don't have anything I'd want to haul up and down steep mountains that would also withstand the more than occasional inclement weather. I took a gander in the safe the other day after reading a posting put up by Ardent on his website (link below) and all I saw was classic blued steel and walnut, which isn't a bad thing, but I'm thinking I want to go after sheep and goats sometime, so why not start thinking about a new rifle (it's a disease I tell yah!).
http://www.morrisonarms.com/2015/12/suggestions-on-mountain-rifles-their-chamberings/

Now I'm not going to disagree with Angus's post, but I'm personally not the biggest fan of the Kimber rifles. So I was wondering what else is out there in the production market for a 6lb or so rifle in a chambering suitable for mountain hunting? I've got some alpine experience, and I know how deceptive distances are when there is only rock and moss around, so I'd like something that shoots flat and is good out to 400yrd or so. For ballistic reasons, I don't want to cut weight by using a short barrel, I'd like to stick with 24" to 26" and no muzzle break (I'm deaf enough already!).

Personally, here's the prospective chamberings I'm considering along with my thoughts as to perceived pros and cons (I don't have or have had any of these):
6.5 REM MAG - Pros: short action, able to shoot slippery 140grn bullets to about 3000fps - Cons: not chambered in production rifles, brass could be hard to find
6.5x284 NORMA - Pros: same as above - Cons: brass availability
264 WIN MAG - Pros: great ballistics - Cons: need a long magnum action, so it'll be heavier by default
270 WIN - Pros: it's the benchmark of mountain rifle cartridges and it's extremely common - Cons: long action
270 WSM - Pros: short action with great ballistics and lots of energy and I could use it for elk too - Cons: short and fat with a sharp shoulder could cause feeding issues
280 REM - Pros: basically a 270 WIN with panache - Cons: long action and a little slow with the heavy 7mm bullets
280 REM AI - Pros: gives the 280 REM a needed boost, pretty much ideal mountain rifle cartridge - Cons: long action, sharp shoulder could cause feeding issues

Out of all the above, my preference is the 270 WIN, it may require a long action, but I'm lazy and don't particularly like hunting down reloading supplies, and .277" bullets, brass, and dies are common. Out of the others, 270 WSM has a noticeable advantage in being able to be used in a short action and being relatively common (compared to the others).

So what do you guys think?
And I'd love to see any setups you've put together, along with your thoughts.
 
I'd probably pick .270, followed by .280, and third choice .270 WSM in a bolt action.
But I'm going to throw you a curve. How about considering something completely different? The Europeans have been making svelte stalking rifles for mountain hunting for generations. Their idea is not a bolt action, it is a single shot break action ( Kipplauf) that can be slipped into a backpack to leave both hands free for climbing, and assembled in seconds when the climb is done. Very precise, accurate, short over all but with a long barrel because of no action parts. They are pricey, but will last several life times. Good ones are made by Merkel, Krieghoff, Blaser, Heym and a few others. They can be chambered in standard rimless cartridges like the .270, or in the functionally superior rimmed cartridges like the 7x65R, equivalent to a hot loaded .280. My brother has a Merkel K1 .270 that weighs under 6 lbs, has a delightful trigger, and is very very accurate. It handles like a dream.
If a Merkel is not in your budget, Wolverine Supplies stocks the Haenel, made in the Merkel factory, as an economical alternative. It does not have fine high grade walnut, and no engravings, but the other features remain. 5.3 lbs, 24"barrel, and under $2000.
 
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It comes down to if you want a production, semi custom, or custom rifle. If you are going 270, then what other long action calibers would be better? Seems to me that most would handload for whatever caliber choosen, so why not get the most horsepower out of your choice.

Handled a Forbes last year, pellet gun light, mixed reviews online.

Whatever you choose be prepared for sticker shock, more so since the death of the Canadian Peso.
 
I never used to care what my sheep rifle weighed and used the same 7mm RM for everything then a 300 WM for everything............lately however I have seen the advantages of a whisper light rifle when climbing big rocks so I built the one in the photos for just such occasions.
It is a Remmington 700 Ti short action 300 WSM, I then ordered a Brown Precision Kevlar 14 oz stock for it and went with a PT&G aluminum bolt shroud and speed lock kit reducing the barreled action weight about 4 oz. Mounted up a Leupold 3-9X36 compact Vari X II in Weaver rings and bases and the whole package is under 6 lbs with a 24" fluted barrel. The load it likes best is a 150 gn Barnes TTSX @ 3200 fps. To my way of thinking and for where I used to hunt sheep and goats it is a perfect set up as both are in heavily infested grizzly country and I just like the idea of a homogenous 30 cal bullet under these circumstances.





 
Goats and sheep usually also mean griz country. I don't believe it means carry the biggest magnum you can manage. I am partial to 7mm myself. There is 280 Ackley ammo out there now thanks to Nosler. Brass is available (or easily formed from 280 Rem). Powder and bullets also as reasonable available as for any other chambering I guess. 7RM also good. I ditched my 7RM for a more standard loading after burning the barrel out at 750 rounds... (and my gunsmith stated that is about what to expect...). So, a 7mm with a sheep/goat load of 120/140 grain and a bear load of 160 or 175 premium bullet handy, and it should be good. Just know you may not always have time to swap a bullet in. Or carry bear spray... Having said that, a 270 Win in various manufacture are good. Tikka T3 runs around 6lbs3oz, Remington Mountain ss at 6.5, etc...
 
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Longwalker: Haven't thought about the single shot option before. I took a quick look around, but couldn't find any with stainless or anti-corrosion coatings. Only found one custom on Martini's website that had a synthetic (fiberglass) stock. It seems most the single shots marketed in North America are not intended to be mountain rifles.
c-fbmi: Nice rifle, I'm surprised you were able to get it under 6lbs scoped. Those Rem 700 Ti actions are pretty scarce, haven't seen one for sale for quite awhile.

I did take a look at the Kimber Montana webpage and noticed the WSM action and the short action (308 WIN class) are different. Weight for the 270 WIN is less than the 270 WSM. I also noted the weights didn't change depending on chambering, so they could be off by a few oz due to bore dia. I don't know why they don't weigh every rifle/chambering combo, it's not like they weights will change from one production run to another.
Kimber Montana weights (pulled off webpage)
Short action 22" barrel (6.5 Creedmoor, 7mm-08 REM): 5lbs-2oz
Long action 24" barrel (270 WIN, 280 AI): 5lbs-10oz
WSM action 24" barrel: 6lbs-3oz
Long magnum action 26" barrel (300 WIN MAG, 338 WIN MAG): 6lbs-13oz
 
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Find a used model 7 stainless synthetic, chamber it to 300 WSM, or another WSM of your choice. Mine was in 7mm08.

Talley lightweight rings and an FX2 or 3 fixed 6x
 
Sorry, guess I wasn't clear, my bad :/

I didn't modify mine, as the 7mm08 was my choice for a sheep rifle. I was just saying any decent smith could convert it quite easily.


Sorry about that.
 
i used a 7x64 for chamois and mouflon in Europe with a zastava rifle (very light lol) and 160 grains.

i ve seen more people now using a 270wsm and tikka t3 mostly stainless and synthetic stock.
 
I have a 6.5rm and 130's at 3150ish and a 280 with 140 fed tbt at 2950 for my lighter/mountain type ones, both rem TI actions. i like the 260 a lot but wanted some more jam in a short action and the 6.5rm does it handily and in style :) im also a fan of the 6.5's and 7's as shoot "slippery" bullets.

I'd be inclined to grab a Forbes in 280 before you can't find them if I was looking right now. otherwise snoop around for used model 7ss in 7mm saum.

A 270 wsm with 140 accubonds would work good to depending on the rifle set up, any of the short magnums are to consider as lots of jam in a short action and can buy or build 'em a bit lighter.
 
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Out of your list the only one I would carry in grizzly country (all of sheep country) is the 280AI. That said, I currently pack a custom 300 savage loaded with 130gr TTSX so my opinion is completely fked.
 
tuffbuff: That 6.5 REM MAG on the Ti action sounds really neat, was it just a re-barrel, or did you do some other mods too?

I've not heard the greatest things about the Forbes rifles, seems QC was lacking. I wouldn't buy one sight unseen, which likely means I won't ever have one.
 
EastBranch said:
Out of your list the only one I would carry in grizzly country (all of sheep country) is the 280AI. That said, I currently pack a custom 300 savage loaded with 130gr TTSX so my opinion is completely fked.
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Lol, I knew at some point this would pop up. If I'm scared of the grizzly, I'm gonna want something bigger than any rifle that'd be ideal for sheep and goats. And I really don't feel like a 6lb 300 MAG of some type, as that wouldn't be any fun for me.

On another note, looking at how much lighter (1/2lb) the short action Kimber is than the long action, I'm wondering how the 7mm-08 REM and 6.5 Creedmoor would compare to the 270 WIN. Food for thought anyhow.
 
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nope only stock thing is the action, if you look for the thread lets see your 700's its in there, or pm your email and will send ya specs and pics. you probably shouldn't build one though as brass is really hard to find!

its 6lbs with rings, not super light as my barrel is a #3 and im running a zeiss scope so not light there either
 
The 270 win would work fine. Personally I use a 300wby, 300 short mag, 7mm rem mag, 270wsm for sheep and goat . all are in rifles that weigh between 6 and 6 3/4 pounds without a scope. This year I will be trying a 28 nosler, in a LAW rifle. also weighs in about 6 3/4 pounds with out a scope. When you buy a scope remember you dont need a heavyweight tactical scope, stick to something light like a swaro z3, leupold, etc, If you are going for an out of the box rifle take a look at an hs precision PHL, weatherby MKV ultralight weight, forbes, a LAW proffessional, or a Rem 7oo titanium if you can find one.
 
Omenator said:
Longwalker: Haven't thought about the single shot option before. I took a quick look around, but couldn't find any with stainless or anti-corrosion coatings. Only found one custom on Martini's website that had a synthetic (fiberglass) stock. It seems most the single shots marketed in North America are not intended to be mountain rifles.
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The Europeans tend to make rifles that look traditional even though they are weather proof. Blaser, for instance uses nitriding as a barrel finish, about the toughest, most corrosion resistant finish possible. Far better than plain stainless steel. Others use teflon variants, or ceramic coatings. You just have to look into their literature more. And two piece wood stocks that are properly sealed are pretty much imperious to weather. They won't warp and affect accuracy / bedding like a one piece wood bolt action stock, both because of the design of the rifle and because of the small piece of fore end wood. Another thing to consider, modern German/Austrian single shots can be carried in complete safely with a loaded chamber. They do not use trigger block safeties ( like a Ruger #1) , rather a cocker/decocker. If you are happier with a bolt action, I totally understand, it's just that the technology and artistry of the Euro stalking rifles are under appreciated in North America so I like to promote them.
 
Longwalker said:
The Europeans tend to make rifles that look traditional even though they are weather proof. Blaser, for instance uses nitriding as a barrel finish, about the toughest, most corrosion resistant finish possible. Far better than plain stainless steel. Others use teflon variants, or ceramic coatings. You just have to look into their literature more. And two piece wood stocks that are properly sealed are pretty much imperious to weather. They won't warp and affect accuracy / bedding like a one piece wood bolt action stock, both because of the design of the rifle and because of the small piece of fore end wood. Another thing to consider, modern German/Austrian single shots can be carried in complete safely with a loaded chamber. They do not use trigger block safeties ( like a Ruger #1) , rather a cocker/decocker. If you are happier with a bolt action, I totally understand, it's just that the technology and artistry of the Euro stalking rifles are under appreciated in North America so I like to promote them.
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I did take a closer look at the Haenal Jaeger 9, and it looks like it'd be very functional. I was trying to find some more information about how it's built and some pictures of it without the stock and fore-end, but I wasn't having any luck. It looks to be very slim, and weight is right around 5-1/2lbs, so it's nice and light. I wonder how the break-open single shots compare against the breech block single shots as far as reliability, robustness of design, and accuracy go?
 
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