Bear defender 12 gauge
- Thread starter Leavenworth
- Start date
Id feel much better off with my 444 or a 45/70 if you so choose. Most ranchers/cowboys that actually work the range land that i have talked to say forget a shot gun and take a rifle even a 30-30 and they are in grizz country. And personally the people that say slug buck slug buck buck buck slug slug slug buck......well you get the idea. are dreaming as your going to be lucky to get off one shot if you shot 3 times then the bear probably didn't need shooting.
My .02 cents
My .02 cents
""And don't forget to stock the right ammo for bears .... Brenneke slugs!!!! '"
Yup, but can be tough to find Brenneke type in Canada...
As an alternative I pack similar Challenger 2 3/4" magnums in my 870. They are made from hard-cast and penetrate deep like a Brenneke as opposed to the softer Foster type slugs (Remington Sluggers) which tend to deform easily.
I also have a high intensity LED flashlight mounted to the mag and barrel. If you encounter a dangerous animal in your camp, chances are it will be at night and having a muzzle mounted light can make a big difference.
Yup, but can be tough to find Brenneke type in Canada...
As an alternative I pack similar Challenger 2 3/4" magnums in my 870. They are made from hard-cast and penetrate deep like a Brenneke as opposed to the softer Foster type slugs (Remington Sluggers) which tend to deform easily.
I also have a high intensity LED flashlight mounted to the mag and barrel. If you encounter a dangerous animal in your camp, chances are it will be at night and having a muzzle mounted light can make a big difference.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
In dry conditions, cracker shells are capable of causing fires, particularly if they explode on the ground in dry grass or other tinder. When it doubt, fire them straight up into the air, that also avoids the danger of overshooting the bear with the cracker shell, and actually driving him towards you. Cracker shells are not used solely against menacing bears, rather they are used to keep a bear moving along in order to prevent a potential problem.
If faced with a menacing bear, and depending on your specific situation, you might live to regret not killing it when you first have the opportunity to do so; but again this depends on your specific circumstances, the reason the bear might be acting in a menacing fashion, or the reason you believe it's behavior is menacing. In my experience scaring bears with live fire has mixed results, but as often as not, it results in the bear walking off in a surly, stiff legged gait, whereas a cracker shell will put the run on him if he hasn't been "crackered" to the extent that he's desensitized to the flash and bang, which frequently does does occur here. This is particularly true in the fall, when bears are typically chased from one area to another, then another and so on, if the COs can't drive him into the river. Another issue is that much of the human/bear interaction around here occurs within, or near town, in the dark, where live fire poses significant dangers, and is best avoided unless killing the bear is imperative.
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I concur with your assessment of slug performance, and my own gun is loaded with Brennekes, and I keep Challengers on hand if someone comes looking to bum shells. In some circumstances though, the disadvantage of the fosters is also their strength. If over penetration is a concern, a foster or even buckshot might be a better choice in that particular scenario.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Like people, bears have their limits. You can push a bear until he won't be pushed anymore, then something else has to happen. I recall one day I was pushing a female with cubs, she worked her way to an embankment, and refused to go any farther, even with the application of a rubber bullet. I backed off and gave her some room, and when I went back to check on her, she was gone. Perhaps she was aware of a large male out on the coast that posed a danger to her cubs, I don't know, but she had gone as far as she was going to go, and if I had pushed the issue, she was ready to respond negatively. Since she and her cubs posed no danger to anyone right there, I opted to leave her alone, even though my intention was to move her out to the coast.
By the way, the best device for moving a bear isn't a cracker shell or a rubber bullet; its a helicopter. You put a helicopter 10'-15' above a bear and he'll go, they hate them things. It just depends on your budget, $2 fro a cracker shell, $5 for a rubber bullet, or $1500/hr for a helicopter . . . with a 1 hour minimum.
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
That's the math, but you should also factor in run up time, if you call in for a helicopter, and he fires up from a cold start, you can expect your first $250-$500 to be spent even before he leaves the ground, then the flight time to get to you, 90 seconds to deal with the bear, and he flies home.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Perhaps, but while they've been laughing, those pilots have saved more than a few lives.
Excellent thread especially Boomers posts.
I carried a 18.5" barreled and then a 14" barreled Rem 870 12 gauge for years even bought one of the Dlask Arms 8.5" barreled 12 870's.
I used to do a lot of prospecting but now I mostly just do remote area camping/hunting/fishing with my soon to be 9 year old son here in BC.
He's allowed to wander off by himself from camp as long as he is in eyesight of me but this could be up to 200 yards away.
I've been racking my brain for a long time for a shotgun or rifle combo that he can have that will work for bear/wild animal defense as we are constantly seeing black bears I have even seen a coyote come in on him.
Been looking at pump and/or semi-auto 20 gauge shotguns but see now that the recoil is still to much for him so I'm going with a 16" barreled Trapper model lever action Puma M92 in 44mag I already load light 180gr JHP to top velocity 270gr Gold Dot rounds now and will be looking for some heavy 300gr wide meplat cast gas checked bullets to also load up for him that can take down any black bear.
Yes I know it is probably sacrilege to mention this in the shotgun forum but maybe some of you folk that are looking for a light/short firearm for bear defense should look at these short lever action pistol cartridge combo's.
I carried a 18.5" barreled and then a 14" barreled Rem 870 12 gauge for years even bought one of the Dlask Arms 8.5" barreled 12 870's.
I used to do a lot of prospecting but now I mostly just do remote area camping/hunting/fishing with my soon to be 9 year old son here in BC.
He's allowed to wander off by himself from camp as long as he is in eyesight of me but this could be up to 200 yards away.
I've been racking my brain for a long time for a shotgun or rifle combo that he can have that will work for bear/wild animal defense as we are constantly seeing black bears I have even seen a coyote come in on him.
Been looking at pump and/or semi-auto 20 gauge shotguns but see now that the recoil is still to much for him so I'm going with a 16" barreled Trapper model lever action Puma M92 in 44mag I already load light 180gr JHP to top velocity 270gr Gold Dot rounds now and will be looking for some heavy 300gr wide meplat cast gas checked bullets to also load up for him that can take down any black bear.
Yes I know it is probably sacrilege to mention this in the shotgun forum but maybe some of you folk that are looking for a light/short firearm for bear defense should look at these short lever action pistol cartridge combo's.
FWIW, I sometimes carry a stainless rossi 92 in .44 Mag that I re-stocked in walnut and installed a Redfield peep onto. My 12yo daughter tried it out, fired one shot, almost dropped the gun, and now eyes the gun suspiciously. She shoots .357 through another 16" example no problem.
I would not trust her to defend against a bear on her own with a .44 Mag rifle. No way. Maybe your 8yo is more stout and can handle it, but I'd be skeptical.
From my post.
What loads were you using that scared her off so badly?
I can load to any recoil level from no recoil to heavy recoil we will find the level that works for him and go with that until we can bump him up and one day I'll move him into a 20 gauge shotgun.
What loads were you using that scared her off so badly?
I can load to any recoil level from no recoil to heavy recoil we will find the level that works for him and go with that until we can bump him up and one day I'll move him into a 20 gauge shotgun.
We have a problem at the farm with large black bears being pushed around by much larger grizzlies. I wouldn't use anything less than a 1 oz slug with 4 more in the tube. Each to their own, but these bears are not little puppy dogs. During mating season you don't go take a sh*t without your gun.
They are also corrosive
Modern rifle rounds (like a .30-06) are ample for most bear encounters, and are routinely used on bear hunts. But the point is to have something more rugged and compact to carry about, and that has other potential uses (like firing shot). Also, some provinces don't allow rifles in the woods above .223" calibre outside of hunting season. So shotguns would be a must!
