superior accuracy. custom VS factory ?

thank you everyone for the honest answers and valid points you all raised . it enlighten my quest, kind of clear out some questions i had unanswered.

reading all the answers and opinions here , what i retain is to achieves the long range '''lazer''' i want, either i go with my build and hope the gunsmith is in top shape the day he throat the barrel and put the '''thing''' together, OR i take the easy-safe but more costy path and get myself a complete rifle from AI or BARRETT which eleminate such options since i don't have that green to pitch on such purchase.....but i'd give a kiddney for an M-RAD lol.






J996 said:
If you like the AI stocks like you mention and have the coin, just get the real deal and never look back. Wolverine just got two AW's in .300 win mag (if they're not sold already).

I went back and forth between custom and factory.I bought an high end factory (AI) in the end and I'm so glad I did.

With accuracy the magic is in the barrel. The LW tube that came on mine frequently puts 5 in the .300's with my amateur @ss driving it.
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i hear you on the advantage of a complete rifle . my limitation here is the price. i'm still limited to 6.5k's for the rifle AND optic. the AW which i've really considered would lead me to close to 9k's optic included, which is much higher than what i want to spend while i agree a complete rifle from any of the top class semi-custom co's would be less risky ; i understand you may get top of the line components, the crucial part is still the fitting-assembly .


It depends how you feel about the shot groups at 500 yards. The factory rifle may shoot well at 500 yards if you are happy with 3 to 7 inch 5 shot group. It will kill the medium size. If you prefer to shoot under .75MOA or even under .5MOA then you will need a custom rifle.
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obviously i'm spending a good chunk of cash, and anything over .5 moa would make me a little sad . my hopes are high. my point is why buying twice when i can do it right at the first attempt.


Ryan.M.Anderson said:
He may not mince words but this is true.

A high-end factory will do you just fine (a real high-end one - TRG,AI, PGW, Desert Tech - not a M700 in a chassis or Savage in a McMillan).
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i've had some thoughts about doin the build with a blueprinted 700 action which would cut the costs in half compared to the 1600iishh for the stiller tac 300. thing is i want a beefy action so i can walk into the ''hot''' zone as reloading goes lolll. also, i want this rifle to be able to shoot as tight even once very warm, i don't need another rifle you must let it cool down to not ruin a nice group .
 
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sigtactical said:
i hear you on the advantage of a complete rifle . my limitation here is the price. i'm still limited to 6.5k's for the rifle AND optic. the AW which i've really considered would lead me to close to 9k's optic included, which is much higher than what i want to spend while i agree a complete rifle from any of the top class semi-custom co's would be less risky ; i understand you may get top of the line components, the crucial part is still the fitting-assembly .
.
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Ah yes, having to stay within a budget certainly makes things harder. I was single with no wife or kids when I bought that AI with S&B on top (the party is over now though haha).
If I had to do a.300 win mag today and work close to a 6.5 k I would go with a Sako TRG42 (4000- 4500) and top it with a 56mm Nightforce (used 2000 new 2500).

Here is a good write up from Terje on what a TRG can do. http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek069.html
 
J996 said:
Ah yes, having to stay within a budget certainly makes things harder. I was single with no wife or kids when I bought that AI with S&B on top (the party is over now though haha).
If I had to do a.300 win mag today and work close to a 6.5 k I would go with a Sako TRG42 (4000- 4500) and top it with a 56mm Nightforce (used 2000 new 2500).

Here is a good write up from Terje on what a TRG can do. http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek069.html
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super nice article, thanks for that. liked the story unrolling in norway.

if i was looking for a pure sniper tube the TRG would be in the contenders right there with HSP and the like ; although i've also heard some TRG owners talking about a rifle that can be pecky on ammo.

i'm looking into same kind of intrinseque accuracy, but in a tactical package i.e folding stock , detachable mag, beefy action-bolt, spiral fluted barrel for durability under high temps and stress, a 20moa rail.....as i said, with the money i'm about to spend i expect better than average lollll.
 
No Fear in Accuracy said:
It depends how you feel about the shot groups at 500 yards. The factory rifle may shoot well at 500 yards if you are happy with 3 to 7 inch 5 shot group. It will kill the medium size. If you prefer to shoot under .75MOA or even under .5MOA then you will need a custom rifle.
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This may well be the most uninformed comment I will read today. I very much like custom rifles and most of mine are exactly that but a high end factory offering will usually produce accuracy on par with the custom and the resale value will exceed that of a custom. By "high end" I mean, for example, offerings from PGW DTI ( my Coyote is sub half if I do my part), SAKO TRG's and Accuracy International.

I don't say this to dissuade buying a custom - there is a certain pride of ownership etc that is really nice about a rifle made for you from parts you selected - but simply to correct misinformation.

Finally, this whole business of sub-half MOA etc is also misleading as there are many rifles that can deliver far tighter groups than the drivers can squeeze out of them. For example, my Barnard P 6mmBR F-Open rifle goes into the safe in the fall as a rifle that prints in the .2's and sometimes the .1's but over the winter somehow turns into rifle that first time out after the snow melts produces groups in the .8's and .9's :)

Whatever you buy enjoy and have fun.

Bob
 
Tomochan said:
there are many rifles that can deliver far tighter groups than the drivers can squeeze out of them. For example, my Barnard P 6mmBR F-Open rifle goes into the safe in the fall as a rifle that prints in the .2's and sometimes the .1's but over the winter somehow turns into rifle that first time out after the snow melts produces groups in the .8's and .9's :)



Bob
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now that's a funny quote.


quite right. i shoot a lot everyday all kind of rifle-calibers when the hunting season is in full swing, but i don't in the off season, the outdoor range i'm working for is closed for the harsher winter months. then getting back at work the following spring , i need some leg streching before getting into sub moa territory again lolll.
 
The OP said "Superior accuracy - custom vs factory". The pencil neck factory barrel will not shoot in consistently. That's what I'm trying to say and I'm talking about 500 yards and beyond, not at 100 yards group.

Take a look at "My Rifle Shoots 1/2 MOA at 300 yards/meters All Day! Really? Prove It!". It tells me that not many factory rifles make it to the club. The semi-custom to full custom rifles are better than the factory rifles. I didn't say "High-end factory rifle" shoot poorly.
 
No Fear in Accuracy said:
The OP said "Superior accuracy - custom vs factory". The pencil neck factory barrel will not shoot in consistently. That's what I'm trying to say and I'm talking about 500 yards and beyond, not at 100 yards group.

Take a look at "My Rifle Shoots 1/2 MOA at 300 yards/meters All Day! Really? Prove It!". It tells me that not many factory rifles make it to the club. The semi-custom to full custom rifles are better than the factory rifles. I didn't say "High-end factory rifle" shoot poorly.
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Please stop........you are making Caramel look good.
 
Custom or factory is a debate for sure but the operator is the main reason or not those rifles will perform... Or not... JP.
 
There are some really good high end factory rifles but if accuracy is of paramount importance then look elsewhere. A properly put together custom with a really good barrel will out do any factory rifle , period and if someone tells you different they are simply ignorant.Other than factory class all champions are shooting custom chambers(most often turn neck etc). Just ask any National champion. Smallest group at 100 yard, 200, 300 , 600 , 1000 ....all set with custom rifles with custom chambers( practically all turn neck). Can't remember anyone even coming close to beating them with a factory rifle.
This is simply a fact.

ie, a good custom 6mm ppc with print 5 shot groups in the 0.1s and 0.2s in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing. There isn't a factory rifle on the planet which will do this.

Ask Tom Sarver what he set the 1000 yard record with. The list goes on and on and on. The point is if you want the best accuracy possible then custom is the way to go.
 
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Canuck525 said:
Smallest group at 100 yard, 200, 300 , 600 , 1000 ....all set with custom rifles with custom chambers( practically all turn neck). Can't remember anyone even coming close to beating them with a factory rifle.
This is simply a fact.
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The OP wants a .300 win mag, not a 6mm. I do agree that todays 6mm's (xc,ppc) are the ticket.

As far as needing a custom to set records, this guy proved otherwise at 600 yds so there are exceptions. Its all about the barrel that gets put on the rifle, the reloading and the guy shooting it.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...st-records-with-accuracy-intl-tactical-rifle/ He set multiple 600-yard UK benchrest records. The gun had a custom 24″ fluted Border barrel and bag-riding accessories but other than that, Darrel’s gun was very much “as-issued” by the factory.

I understand why he used it, its a big square brick flat bottom action permanently glued and screwed to a long aluminum box rail. Movement is not possible.
He ordered up a X47 barrel, spun it on and torqued it up (border is a barrel supplier for AI).

While this is certainly not the norm, it was done with a factory rifle.
 
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J996 said:
The OP wants a .300 win mag, not a 6mm. I do agree that todays 6mm's (xc,ppc) are the ticket.

As far as needing a custom to set records, this guy proved otherwise at 600 yds so there are exceptions. Its all about the barrel that gets put on the rifle, the reloading and the guy shooting it.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...st-records-with-accuracy-intl-tactical-rifle/ He set multiple 600-yard UK benchrest records. The gun had a custom 24″ fluted Border barrel and bag-riding accessories but other than that, Darrel’s gun was very much “as-issued” by the factory.


He had a custom barrel which obviously no longer makes it factory which is exactly my point.

I understand why he used it, its a big square brick flat bottom action permanently glued and screwed to a long aluminum box rail. Movement is not possible.
He ordered up a X47 barrel, spun it on and torqued it up (border is a barrel supplier for AI).

While this is certainly not the norm, it was done with a factory rifle.
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I have a kreiger barrel chambered in 6x47 lapua on my Remington. No factory Remington would even come close to touching it for accuracy. To suggest it is factory is no longer the case. Once you rebarrel all bets are off.

My point is, no off the shelf rifle will be as accurate as a good custom/ semi custom, rebarreled, or what ever you want to call it.
 
Canuck525 said:
I have a kreiger barrel chambered in 6x47 lapua on my Remington. No factory Remington would even come close to touching it for accuracy. To suggest it is factory is no longer the case. Once you rebarrel all bets are off.

My point is, no off the shelf rifle will be as accurate as a good custom/ semi custom, rebarreled, or what ever you want to call it.
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Well with AI's and their like its kind of a catch 22. You can't really compare them to something cheaply made and mass produced like Remington. Each one is assembled by hand, tested, with a high end barrel and they are also a switch barrel gun.

Their barrels are all the same, pre-fit. Mr Evans just pulled the Border .308 tube and put on the Border X47 tube (you order barrels from the dealer and install them yourself, 10 min job). The barrels for them are pre-fit, there's no way to smith it while its on the receiver as the receiver is permanently attached to the chassis. Headspace gets set with a breech ring.

They are billed as a factory gun same as PGW but like you mentioned, are they really a factory type rifle considering all the work that goes into them? I agree that semi-custom is a better term.

Keeping things more in tune with this side of the pond, if Canada's PGW chambered one of their Coyotes in 6XC using one of their big krieger's, I have no doubt it would print in the .2's. I'd like to see it tried (not by me though, I'm broke at the moment and am definitely not a pro shooter).
 
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No Fear in Accuracy said:
It depends how you feel about the shot groups at 500 yards. The factory rifle may shoot well at 500 yards if you are happy with 3 to 7 inch 5 shot group. It will kill the medium size. If you prefer to shoot under .75MOA or even under .5MOA then you will need a custom rifle.

I think you will love 6BR or 6 Dasher. These tiny bullet will shoot far accurate to 500 yards.
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+1 for the horse feces comment.

My 10FCP-K stock shoots half a minute. You are wrong.
 
How much accuracy of a custom gun has to do with the skill of the smith setting it up ?? Is it mainly using the best components or what percentage error could the assembly affect it ? Is there any other factors that are not mentioned yet ?
 
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