slow death of the 40?

I have also heard LE is going back to 9mm. Even though I personally prefer the 9mm, I don't think .40 is going anywhere soon. Lots of competitors in IPSC standard for example use .40 as it suits their needs best.
 
I love 40 cal, it's the caliber I cut my teeth on when learning to shoot pistols, and has kind of been my default pistol caliber as a result. Shot many thousands of rounds of 40.
I always find myself laughing at these "40 is dying" threads. Seems like the 9mm diehards come out to validate their inability to shoot the dreadfully useless, "snappy" 40 lol..
The 40 may not be for everyone, particularly if you are recoil sensitive in any way. But it's a great cartridge, and it's not going anywhere. The bullet advancements that make the 9mm better and awesome, also apply to 40 and 45, so whatever.
I like 9mm just fine too, I just enjoy shooting 40 more. I love 45 as well, but it definitely gets expensive.
End of days scenario give me any one I can handle them equally well.
 
I like 9mm just fine too, I just enjoy shooting 40 more. I love 45 as well, but it definitely gets expensive.
End of days scenario give me any one I can handle them equally well.[/QUOTE]

^^agree totally.....well said...
 
Sleeper said:
I am failing to understand how the .40 could become obsolete due to better 9mm bullets. Any advances made to the 9mm can be applied to the .40 and .45 etc.

In my opinion it comes down to marketing hype. For a decade the guru's push capacity then the next it's "stopping power"

I can understand why a department would wish to choose the 9. It's cheaper, less recoil tends to provide tighter groups for people who practice little. Oh and it's cheaper.

For the individual who has the choice I would tend to pick the most power I can shoot accurately given the situation required. Wilderness carry would call for something different than deep concealment.

However as the most we can do is plink away in our range safe zones I think enjoying what you shoot much more important than the size of the hole, how fast it is going, and the quality of the projectile.
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Those were exactly my thought when I read those comments also.

Obviously any improvements that can be made to the 9mm could also be made to the 40; and as Greenhorse Six noted, the US military are looking for something better then the 9mm they now have.
 
Beyond better qualifying scores, cheaper ammo etc the other big reason to change in the LE market is gun life, 40 kills guns faster. I know of a number of agencies that are switching and that is their biggest reason. The life of the gun is extended dramatically with a 9mm
 
highlander said:
Those were exactly my thought when I read those comments also.

Obviously any improvements that can be made to the 9mm could also be made to the 40; and as Greenhorse Six noted, the US military are looking for something better then the 9mm they now have.
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Not really, originally the 40's were built heavier than 9's to handle the higher pressures but now most 9's are just a 40 with a 9mm barrel which means they can both handle the same pressures but the 9 has the advantage of cheaper brass and projectiles and higher capacity for LEO or any places not affected by magazine restrictions.

BTW I read an article a while ago and take it for want its worth but it showed that with modern ammo there was very little difference between 9, 40 and 45 in ballistic gel testing and that the FBI statistics showed than when officers had to shoot suspects the average shots needed to stop them was something like 1.3 for 45, 1.5 for 40 and 1.7 for 9 meaning that regardless of caliber most times it required the second round and because of this capacity becomes the deciding factor in what caliber to carry.

That being said I dont see the death of the 40 anytime soon as it pretty much dominates some divisions of shooting sports.
 
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highlander said:
Those were exactly my thought when I read those comments also.

Obviously any improvements that can be made to the 9mm could also be made to the 40; and as Greenhorse Six noted, the US military are looking for something better then the 9mm they now have.
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It is different for the military though as they are limited to FMJ not any of these fancy new expanding rounds. When you can only use FMJ there is a distinct advantage in bigger bullets. However I suspect the next round NATO adapts will be something like the 5.7x28 round mainly because of body armour and the fact you can have a ton of 5.7 rounds in a magazine (I believe around 20 usually).
 
plinker 777 said:
Yep. ^ This about sums it up. I've personally never understood, rather been intellectually satisfied as to the reason for the .40 S&W existence. Same could be said for the .45 GAP and I don't know enough about the .357sig to comment.

Also, I believe 10mm is on the rise in popularity, just not here where it is a hand loaders option only for all intent and purpose.
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The reason for the .40 is best illustrated in a two-part video on YouTube called The Miami Shootout. In a nutshell, several (eight?) FBI agents engaged two bank robbers, one of which was armed with a .223 and was a vet, therefore, trained. The FBI took fatalities and injuries.

The following outcry led authorities to look at the 10mm, but that shot too hard, so they cut the 10 down and called it the .40.

Listening to the survivors in Part 2 of the video is one of the most sobering experiences I have had in years. Their advice did not lean so much toward a higher calibre, but more rounds. The part about trying to reload a .38 revolver with their own blood and bone fragments clogging up the cylinders is convincing.
 
kk said:
The reason for the .40 is best illustrated in a two-part video on YouTube called The Miami Shootout. In a nutshell, several (eight?) FBI agents engaged two bank robbers, one of which was armed with a .223 and was a vet, therefore, trained. The FBI took fatalities and injuries.

The following outcry led authorities to look at the 10mm, but that shot too hard, so they cut the 10 down and called it the .40.

Listening to the survivors in Part 2 of the video is one of the most sobering experiences I have had in years. Their advice did not lean so much toward a higher calibre, but more rounds. The part about trying to reload a .38 revolver with their own blood and bone fragments clogging up the cylinders is convincing.
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Seems to me that fiasco was more of a procedural issue rather than a being an out gunned issue.

M
 
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I have never seen the appeal from a target shooting perspective. Shoot 45acp when you want to shoot big and 9mm when you want to shoot small.
 
Oh yes...id prefer it if everyone else hated it.....when 22lr, 9mm and .45 were unobtanium...I was able to keep my .40's running...long live the 40
 
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