COL & charge

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RTF2

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I ordered Cam-pro FCP TC bullets, the load data for these bullets are as follows:

COL 1.130"
Taper crimp .415

Charge for titegroup is min 4.6, max 5.1 gr.

So basically, no matter the charge (between these values) I seat the bullet the same depth? What if I was to load a charge below the minimum to start off with? Say 4.2 or 4.0 gr?

Where would you guys start with this load? I'd like to start really low and work my way up, all the bad things I've heard of overcharged 40 S&W & glocks make me a little nervous starting out.

On another note, I've got all my supplies orderd and it should be home by the time I'm finished up offshore. I've got everything besides a tumbler, anyone here clean brass without a tumbler? What's an effective way?

Thanks
 
What the data tells you is that CamPro recommends 4.6 to 5.1gr when that bullet is set for a cartridge OAL of 1.130". These are the parameters for which the company did their testing.

If you were to set the bullet deeper, the peak chamber pressure would increase and you might get overpressure at max charge. SAAMI specs for .40S&W calls for a max OAL of 1.135", so the CamPro data is basically for max length cartridges already.

You can certainly load less than minimum charge with a shorter OAL, yes, and increase from there. If you load too little, worse that will happen is that you'll either get a squib or that the action of your pistol won't cycle properly. Just be careful not to shoot a second round right after a squib, yes? That might ruin your day big time.

Clean brass without a tumbler... That's an interesting idea, I wonder what reloaders did before tumblers? I guess you could wet tumble manually in the kitchen sink? That would be real slow though, you might as well do each case one by one with a bore brush and a drill. :)
 
Grawfr said:
What the data tells you is that CamPro recommends 4.6 to 5.1gr when that bullet is set for a cartridge OAL of 1.130". These are the parameters for which the company did their testing.

If you were to set the bullet deeper, the peak chamber pressure would increase and you might get overpressure at max charge. SAAMI specs for .40S&W calls for a max OAL of 1.135", so the CamPro data is basically for max length cartridges already.

You can certainly load less than minimum charge with a shorter OAL, yes, and increase from there. If you load too little, worse that will happen is that you'll either get a squib or that the action of your pistol won't cycle properly. Just be careful not to shoot a second round right after a squib, yes? That might ruin your day big time.

Clean brass without a tumbler... That's an interesting idea, I wonder what reloaders did before tumblers? I guess you could wet tumble manually in the kitchen sink? That would be real slow though, you might as well do each case one by one with a bore brush and a drill. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks! Is there a guideline to how deep to set the bullet relative to how much I reduce the charge? Say if I want to start my charge out at 3.8, or 4.0.. Do I just leave the bullet at 1.125 or 1.130? Or will I have to jam it in there further? No dirty jokes on that last line.. Haha
 
RTF2 said:
Thanks! Is there a guideline to how deep to set the bullet relative to how much I reduce the charge? Say if I want to start my charge out at 3.8, or 4.0.. Do I just leave the bullet at 1.125 or 1.130? Or will I have to jam it in there further? No dirty jokes on that last line.. Haha
Click to expand...

You DO NOT vary seating depth with powder charge. Why would you?

Seating depth is all about feed and function. The bullet needs to be short enough to feed but long enough to be reasonably close to the lands. Too short and you will get keyholing because the bullet won't engage the rifling straight. Too long and the thing won't feed properly or it will get stuck in the chamber.

You should be way more afraid of under charging than over charging. An under charge can result in the bullet not leaving the barrel. Fire a second shot and the barrel bulges and explodes. On a typical overcharge you get a bulged case or worse case a split case, no big deal.

Keep in mind that COAL is highly dependant on the bullet shape. What works for one bullet may be totally wrong for another. DO NOT blindly follow the COAL you find in the data. For the most part, that is entirely useless information.
 
Suputin said:
You DO NOT vary seating depth with powder charge. Why would you?

Seating depth is all about feed and function. The bullet needs to be short enough to feed but long enough to be reasonably close to the lands. Too short and you will get keyholing because the bullet won't engage the rifling straight. Too long and the thing won't feed properly or it will get stuck in the chamber.

You should be way more afraid of under charging than over charging. An under charge can result in the bullet not leaving the barrel. Fire a second shot and the barrel bulges and explodes. On a typical overcharge you get a bulged case or worse case a split case, no big deal.

Keep in mind that COAL is highly dependant on the bullet shape. What works for one bullet may be totally wrong for another. DO NOT blindly follow the COAL you find in the data. For the most part, that is entirely useless information.
Click to expand...

So I should be weary of following the COAL that was listed for the specific brand of bullet I bought?
 
RTF2 said:
So I should be weary of following the COAL that was listed for the specific brand of bullet I bought?
Click to expand...

The published COAL (and other data) is a starting point. The minimum powder charge is especially a starting point.
What I've done in the past to determine COAL is to make up a few (5 or so) dummy rounds (no primer or powder) to check chambering and feed functionality. Different guns will likely show a preference for one overall length over another. Once I have that sorted out, I make up 10-15 test rounds with varying powder charges. When I test fire these, I watch for primer abnormalities, group size, and other criteria.
Once I have a suitable load determined, then I go into full production mode.
 
You can tie your fired brass in a fabric bag like a pillow case and run it through the washing machine or put it in a pot of water, add some lemon juice and boil it for 15 minutes or so. Nice rolling boil. Then rinse it very thoroughly in clean water. Make sure it's completely dry before priming and loading. Both of these ways work best if you deprime the brass first. Also better for the washing machine.
 
I've got everything besides a tumbler, anyone here clean brass without a tumbler? What's an effective way?
Click to expand...

Boiling pot above sounds pretty good.

Failing that try an ultrasonic cleaner with a weak CLR or citric acid solution. Or try a bucket with the same solution and a few minutes of swishing around followed by a rinse and dry. The brass probably won't be shiny but one or two times through the resizing die will help a bit.
 
OldDude said:
The published COAL (and other data) is a starting point. The minimum powder charge is especially a starting point.
What I've done in the past to determine COAL is to make up a few (5 or so) dummy rounds (no primer or powder) to check chambering and feed functionality. Different guns will likely show a preference for one overall length over another. Once I have that sorted out, I make up 10-15 test rounds with varying powder charges. When I test fire these, I watch for primer abnormalities, group size, and other criteria.
Once I have a suitable load determined, then I go into full production mode.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot everyone. One last question, as far as primers go, what's the difference between CCI #500, and say federal #100 small pistol? I can't find a definitive answer to this
 
RTF2 said:
Thanks a lot everyone. One last question, as far as primers go, what's the difference between CCI #500, and say federal #100 small pistol? I can't find a definitive answer to this
Click to expand...

In essence? Same thing, different brands. And about the same difference as between two brands of dishwashing soaps: they'll both do the job well enough as long as one isn't some made-in-Pakistan no-name brand. External dimensions have to be identical because they are standardized for the case primer pocket. What changes is the alloy used to make the primer cup (softer, harder), the primer composition, etc...

If one brand of primer was known for having an excessive numbers of duds, we'd know by now surely. I've been using CCI #550 and I think I got one misfire in over 500 rounds to date. The next one could be on number 501, or it could be on number 20,001, there's no saying. :)
 
Actually, there is quite a big difference between federal and CCI primers. Federal primers are more sensitive.

If you have a semi auto rifle with a floating firing pin - don't use Federals. More risk of a slam fire.

If you have a pistol that has a light hammer spring - use Federal for best ignition. My FMK pistol gets 50% or misfires with any primer except Federal.
 
Good point, Ganderite, thanks.

I hadn't considered what happens when using firearms that are slightly "out of norm" due to a dirty floating firing pin channel or a lighter-than-average hammer spring. RFT2 didn't tell us what he was shooting that .40S&W from, though I suspect it's one of the Glocks.
 
Grawfr said:
Good point, Ganderite, thanks.

I hadn't considered what happens when using firearms that are slightly "out of norm" due to a dirty floating firing pin channel or a lighter-than-average hammer spring. RFT2 didn't tell us what he was shooting that .40S&W from, though I suspect it's one of the Glocks.
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Glock 22! And thanks!
 
All of my brass is once fired out of a glock, a lot of rounds have a slight bulge. Will my resizing die take care of that bulge or will I need a proper bulge buster?
 
Ganderite said:
Sizer should do it. Size a few and see if they drop into the chamber all the way.
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Is it in the high risk category for blowing the case if I only resize & don't de bulge? I only plan on making lite/low recoil rounds. Just for the sake of saving some powder,
 
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