intermediate shooter looking for help to shoot faster

vince514

vince514

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Hey guys

Im a intermediate shooter i got some experience under my belt shooting all types of handguns : p226 .22, glocks, 1911's, revolvers and desert eagle.
i can hit 4 inch plates at 20-25m consistently, been practicing dry fire
MY MAIN PROBLEM would be in the follow-up shots / muzzle rise / recoil departement.
Before starting to talk about it i would like to state that im no small guy with weak hands. im 6'0 and 190 not fat. got some experience at the gym also.
Limp wristing is something i dont know.

Been trying to improve everything involved in shooting : grip, stance, finger placement etc..
my muzzle rise is a little bit too much and doesnt really returns to ZERO most of the time.
often after a shot im under the center of the target and other times a little bit too high.
Been shooting my glock 34 mos with trijicon RMR on it. Loosing the red dot after everyshot i just cant believe it
I have to readjust after every shot. even if i can do it quickly IT SUCKS.
No matter how much i try / how hard i squeeze looks like my technique doesnt do it.
been reading/watching videos online on the thumbs forward grip.

Im a righty

im shooting with :

left foot in front of the right foot
both elbows extended straight
gun and arms at the level of my eyes
high tang grip no gap between web of my shooting hand
support hand fingers collapsing between shooting hand fingers touching trigger guard
thumb straight at the highest point i can put it on the frame without touching the slide.

might be stupid but

Part of the problem might be : for some reason i cant / dont know how to lock my wrist while shooting. (checking sup.hand grip extending left hand fingers looks "about 45" pointing the ground.)

I can recall the gun flipping out of my support hand EVEN IF i was squeezing the gun and shooting hand with it + applying pressure with left thumb on the frame.

While i never do limp wristing and i dont think im using death grip but i can recall having all the dots of the g34 gen4 textured grip printed in my hands though.



This problem is getting me frustrated and i need help from more experienced shooter.

I seen today 2 videos where some guy shoots a gun only held by his support hand with less recoil than me with 2 hands...

Help please.
 
When you say your elbows are strait, do you mean the gun is pushed all the way out from your body?

I'm no pro, but I found keeping my elbows slightly bent and the pistol not extended as far to help me alot. I just started messing with a burris fast fire 2 on my 1911, not sure if I like it though. Overall accuracy was easier but not sure if I care for searching for the dot.
 
Try arms slightly bent with elbows out , then rotate your elbows down and in towards each other a bit, this should help to lock your hands/wrists a bit more. Remember to reaquire target and align sights before you reset the trigger, follow through is important in getting sights back on target for the next shot.
 
@ madcow and enefgee

i totally agree with both of you guys but when i meant speed, i meant having more control on my recoil so i dont get limited(in speed) by the recovery of the recoil.

Honestly i would like to do some kind of double that, past 10 yards im pretty sure the 2nd bullet with miss the paper.

i never miss the paper. i gotta admit i never trained to shoot more than one rounds consecutively, except my with .22 p226.

of course i should do some more speed drills to gain speed but before doing that would it be better to fix my grip technique?

@ Butcherbill : will definitely try next time, feeling like i ve tried everything .. I must be missing something a little detail that makes all the difference.
 
vince514 said:
@ madcow and enefgee

i totally agree with both of you guys but when i meant speed, i meant having more control on my recoil so i dont get limited(in speed) by the recovery of the recoil.

Honestly i would like to do some kind of double that, past 10 yards im pretty sure the 2nd bullet with miss the paper.

i never miss the paper. i gotta admit i never trained to shoot more than one rounds consecutively, except my with .22 p226.

of course i should do some more speed drills to gain speed but before doing that would it be better to fix my grip technique?

@ Butcherbill : will definitely try next time, feeling like i ve tried everything .. I must be missing something a little detail that makes all the difference.
Click to expand...

And here is your problem. You need to work on the fundamentals before you work on speed. Speed will always come as accuracy increases.

If your Second shot (double tap), is not hitting paper that is telling me you are either pulling the trigger too fast or you are not fully in control of when you take your second shot.

Once you can double tap 2 A's, then start speeding up the second shot. You need to make sure you have proper target acquisition before you take the second shot, you are rushing. I shot ISPC for over 25+ years, and don't know how many practice sessions I would finish with the A zone of the target completely shot out. If you can't shoot 2 A's consistently you are shooting too fast, no other reason. If you can't consistently shoot out a small 3" hole in a target no other tricks will make you shoot faster. target acquisition and fire, repeat many times over. Proper grip and stance will help this of course, and you can speed up reloading.

Practice with more experience shooters, learn tips from them. But in the end, its the lead you send downrange.

Also, don't try to control the recoil, learn to use it for the second shot. Fighting the recoil in some cases is slower than just letting the gun rock in your hand. Try it during a practice session, you will notice the difference.


So my advice? same as above, accuracy. I don't know how many times I blew a stage with that extra C instead of an A. Any most other shooters will say the same.
 
Trying to compare yourself to Seeklander is a pretty tough standard dude.

You likely are not gripping the gun hard enough with your support hand, but without seeing your grip it's very hard to tell if that's the major issue. Also, a lot of people squeeze the gun like they are holding a hammer, which is only part of the equation. You need to crush inward on your grip with your hands employing your pecs on the gun.

I would suggest you post a pic or video of your grip while shooting if you want help here. If you want to actually improve seek some professional instruction. It will help immensely.

If you want to learn some drills to help with tracking your sights and learning to control the gun under recoil let me know and I will post some info.
 
I also wanted to add to my above post. I picked this tip up from Todd Green on Pistol-Forum.com; most modern handguns in normal calibers don't recoil enough that you actively think about controlling recoil. As long as you have a good grip and stance (fundamentals), it is your vision that controls the pace at which you shoot.

Are you tracking your front sight under recoil, or in the OP's case your dot? If you are not able to do that, your ability to shoot fast and accurately will not reach it's full potential.
 
Try some liquid rock climbing chalk on your hands
Your other strong hand can properly clamp without slipping
Skate tape on grips combined with this will also help.

Once you grip your gun to maximum strenght, track front sight.
If after first shot your second shot dives under first, you are oversprung, lighten recoil spring
If your second shot hits higher, you are undersprung put a heavier spring

Different reloads or factory loads will act different on gun timing.
Once you start tuning recoil springs keep using same recipe or factory ammo
 
vince514 said:
Hey guys

Im a intermediate shooter i got some experience under my belt shooting all types of handguns : p226 .22, glocks, 1911's, revolvers and desert eagle.
i can hit 4 inch plates at 20-25m consistently, been practicing dry fire
MY MAIN PROBLEM would be in the follow-up shots / muzzle rise / recoil departement.
Before starting to talk about it i would like to state that im no small guy with weak hands. im 6'0 and 190 not fat. got some experience at the gym also.
Limp wristing is something i dont know.

Been trying to improve everything involved in shooting : grip, stance, finger placement etc..
my muzzle rise is a little bit too much and doesnt really returns to ZERO most of the time.
often after a shot im under the center of the target and other times a little bit too high.
Been shooting my glock 34 mos with trijicon RMR on it. Loosing the red dot after everyshot i just cant believe it
I have to readjust after every shot. even if i can do it quickly IT SUCKS.
No matter how much i try / how hard i squeeze looks like my technique doesnt do it.
been reading/watching videos online on the thumbs forward grip.

Im a righty

im shooting with :

left foot in front of the right foot
both elbows extended straight
gun and arms at the level of my eyes
high tang grip no gap between web of my shooting hand
support hand fingers collapsing between shooting hand fingers touching trigger guard
thumb straight at the highest point i can put it on the frame without touching the slide.

might be stupid but

Part of the problem might be : for some reason i cant / dont know how to lock my wrist while shooting. (checking sup.hand grip extending left hand fingers looks "about 45" pointing the ground.)

I can recall the gun flipping out of my support hand EVEN IF i was squeezing the gun and shooting hand with it + applying pressure with left thumb on the frame.

While i never do limp wristing and i dont think im using death grip but i can recall having all the dots of the g34 gen4 textured grip printed in my hands though.



This problem is getting me frustrated and i need help from more experienced shooter.

I seen today 2 videos where some guy shoots a gun only held by his support hand with less recoil than me with 2 hands...

Help please.
Click to expand...

 
It's very difficult to debug technique without seeing it. Post some video maybe?
Meanwhile, a couple or three things to consider:
Most people don't grip as hard as they think they are, especially with the weak hand.
Locking the arms out straight drives recoil into the wrists and the shoulders (pivots) instead of absorbing it into the system.
Never shoot faster than you can see. No such thing as a callable double tap. Two aimed shots, always. Visual input requirements to make a given shot will vary with the difficulty of the shot. You have to discover what the bare minimum is that you need to see for the shot you are making.

Good luck.
 
Unfortunately i dont have any recent videos, before i wasnt using the exact same grip. so these videos wont help.

ill post a video soon.

Next time i ll go to the range ill make sure to try everything i learned here.

Problem might be :

wasnt using pecs strenght at all to lock squeeze both hands on the gun.

Straight elbows, not absorbing recoil. -> fix : elbows slightly bent, rotated outward?
support hand/second strong hand : try to apply as much pressure necessary on frame near backstrap area (seeklander)

Question : the support hand thumb does it has to be making contact with the pistol frame? do you apply pressure on the frame with support hand thumb???? personally im always thinking about my thumb getting hit by the slide stop notch. i avoid putting my thumb on the side of the slide.

Shooting hand thumb : people shooting a 1911 like to put it on top of the safety lever.. you can do that with most polymers. Does it really helps if i try to put it as high as possible (not touching slide) on top of my support hand?

Ahhhhh sighhhhh cant wait to fix this stupid problem. it is preventing me to improve...........
 
On a 1911 your thumb is over the safety, but the idea is not to press down on the safety; it's to get your hand as high on the grip as possible. Gripped correctly, your strong hand thumb rests on top of your weak hand thumb and you just point both thumbs at the target. Pressing against the frame or the safet with your thumbs may or may not cause deflections at the muzzle. Depends on personal structural variables. Best to err on the side of correct mechanics and just not do it. Grip with your hands, not your thumbs. Draw your fingers in towards the palms.
 
One thing I haven't seen mentioned, break your support hand wrist - by that I mean stretch your support hand thumb directly at the target, in a straight line with the forearm, that stops your support hand from getting lazy and insures that your support hand fingers are at the correct angle. It's a commonly ignored thing, especially when shooting for longer periods of time when your grip starts to get lazy.

Disclaimer: I'm not a very good fast shooter - I've never done an accurate pair of shots with a split under about .2, and somewhere out there there's a video of me shooting on a course and it looks like I'm agreeing with someone - I'm following the front sight just fine, but to do it, my head is actually bobbing. So take whatever I say with that in mind.
 
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