T2 Garand - Part 1

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Ya might want to read his Ironclad Guarantee ................. they followed it

Not exactly.

Here is the guarantee pasted word for word. Red emphasis added by me.

Ironclad Guarantee
For over thirty years Marstar's Ironclad Guarantee has remained the standard by which all Canadian militaria-related businesses are judged. It contains no fine print and is your assurance of our commitment to total customer satisfaction.

All of our products are covered by our 30-Day Ironclad Guarantee. If you are not satisfied with your purchase, please contact us immediately for a refund, credit or exchange.

Please read the following before returning merchandise to Marstar Canada:
A) Before returning product(s) to Marstar please contact us to discuss the details of your return shipment and to
obtain a “Return Merchandise Authorization” (RMA #). Failure to comply may result in our refusing an unauthorized shipment and returning it to you, at your expense. Please contact us before proceeding.

B) Returned product(s) must be shipped to Marstar no later than 30 days after the original shipping date for Canadian orders or
no later than 45 days for U.S. and other foreign orders. The original shipping date is the date on which the order was shipped
from Marstar Canada (please see the postmark on the original parcel).

C) Product(s) being returned must be in the same condition as they were shipped and must not be altered, modified or have been
mistreated in any way
. The product cannot be damaged due to customer use or abuse. All associated parts, accessories and
documentation included with the product(s) must also be returned in their original, unaltered condition.

D) When the above conditions have been met, the value of the product(s) being returned to Marstar will be reimbursed to the
client as a refund, credit or exchange. Shipping costs may or may not be reimbursed, depending on circumstances.

Marstar Canada will not reimburse any customs fees, duties, import taxes, brokerage fees or transaction fees that may be
imposed by other institutions.

E) Marstar Canada will not be liable for any appraisal services, cleaning, gunsmithing, inspection or other fees the client may have
incurred unless said services were authorized in advance, in writing, by Marstar Canada.
All returns are to be shipped via Canada Post "standard" shipping unless otherwise instructed.

Please: DO NOT ship COD for shipping charges as your parcel(s) will be refused.
DO NOT ship priority courier, as you will not be reimbursed for the additional charges.
DO NOT ship via Fedex, DHL, UPS, Dicom, Express Post, Priority Post or any other courier services.
Your shipment will NOT be accepted unless previously authorized by Marstar.

Notes:

1) Military surplus and used firearms and products are described and illustrated as accurately as is humanly possible.
Most are 50+ years old and may have minor blemishes and will likely vary in appearance from those portrayed on our website.
Such variables will NOT constitute a valid reason for warranty consideration. If a refund is issued, it will not include any shipping costs.

2) Because each piece of wood has a unique appearance when used in stocks, grips etc, appearance differences from those
shown on our website will NOT constitute a valid reason for warranty consideration.

3) Variations in finish or bluing may differ from what is seen on a monitor - this is normal. Variations observed between the finish
on the firearm received and that of the firearm illustrated on our website will NOT constitute a valid reason for warranty consideration.

4) Product(s) that suffer damage, mistreatment or abuse by the owner will void the warranty.

5) ANY mechanical modification whatsoever to any firearm could void your warranty.

6) Before attempting to repair your firearm, please contact Marstar, as you could void your warranty.

Restocking Fee:

Product(s) returned for reason(s) other than for being defective, particularly if special ordered, may be subject to a 20% restocking fee.

So where to start? So there is no fine print, but I just spent 5 minutes reading all the fine print that comes after the first sentence - what's up with that?

They state "Shipping costs may or may not be reimbursed, depending on circumstances". But keep reading because the state SPECIFICALLY when it will not be refunded for a milsurp rifle.

They say that if the rifle is NOT described and illustrated as accurately as possible, that is grounds for coverage - similarly if blemishes exceed whatever they consider to be "minor blemishes".

I would submit that big welding blobs on a bolt is more than a minor blemish. I would submit that a Italian-arsenal assembled T2 that is NOT an "inferior commercial copy" is more than stretching the truth and is not a good example of product that is "described and illustrated as accurately as is humanly possible".

YMMV, but in small claims court - that guarantee statement would be to Master's detriment.
 
Why would the lugs have to be welded at all?

The working theory is that they used cheap barrels that were breached up improperly and had chambers that were too long to pass german proof testing for .308 Winchester. They might have passed 7.62x51 field just fine - who knows?

The fronts of all the lugs looks to have been ground back and the rear of the lugs built up with weld to move the bolts closer to the chamber and shorten headspace - amateur style, that is.
 
It's John himself that has many posts in the Marstar forum that they have "the best warranty ever, not happy for any reason, return for full refund, you won't be out anything, we cover shipping/return shipping".
It was clearly stated by him, in the SVT Sniper ####show where he got schooled on what he was trying to pass off as "Real Genuine Snipers" which in fact all clearly were not (wow, kind of like this ####show). He tried to reassure people that there was "no risk" in buying from them because of the Ironclad Guarantee, if they were not as advertised or not happy for any reason send them back.
Then he threw a tantrum and sold them all overseas someplace mid discussion like a #####.
Good read, seriously...
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/984678-Svt-rifles?highlight=svt40
And LOOK at this bolt, Smithsauce got hosed on shipping because this isn't safe and John says #### You Buddy! There is a hole melted into the rear bolt lug...a big one.
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Best post of the Sniper fiasco from J1

Post 103 btw

"Don't trust what we post, don't trust our warranty, don't trust our almost 30 year reputation, that way you saved over $1,100.oo good move
John
"
 
My rifle is on the way back, I paid the shipping.

This was the 1st time I ever had a problem with Marstar personally so I gave them an alternative to make things right with me and if they comes through for me I'll be happy enough.

I hope everyone that purchased a rifle gets it resolved to their satisfaction.
 
Why would the lugs have to be welded at all?

The working theory is that they used cheap barrels that were breached up improperly and had chambers that were too long to pass german proof testing for .308 Winchester. They might have passed 7.62x51 field just fine - who knows?

The fronts of all the lugs looks to have been ground back and the rear of the lugs built up with weld to move the bolts closer to the chamber and shorten headspace - amateur style, that is.

My barrel isn't chromed at the gas port area. My cylinder is loose front to back and can rotate slightly too. Not good for any kind of accuracy. The barrel on mine is flush to the receiver. I just pulled mine out again to check on these few things that have been mentioned and mine is going back too.

My rear sight was also just thrown on and not functional when I got it.

My bolt has been ground at the rear too, but it almost seems like maybe it was welded and then ground as there are even holes/pits in the ground areas!!!

It is too bad because this one is gorgeous, but with all this and the wierdness that is going on, I am not keeping it for a $2000 parts gun built with questionable quality.


View attachment 61818

View attachment 61819

If that is the plan, to dramatically adjust headspace issues, it is a dumb way to do it.
The bubbles in the weld area are called Porosity, as in porous.
It is caused by oxygen getting into the molten weld metal. That is the reason for using an inert shielding gas. (The ig in mig and tig means Inert Gas)
That indicates to me that this is done by mig/wirefeed process, and was not properly shielded.
And as the filler wire (weld metal added) for this process is very soft mild steel, nothing like 4340 alloy steel, it is a piss-poor choice for a fix.
Even if an attempt was made to re-harden the bolts after welding, this blob of weldment could not be brought up to the required hardness.
 
Taking a closer look at the first pic, it looks like an arc strike along the side of the bolt body.
This could indicate a stick electrode was used, rather than wirefeed.

It still doesnt change my opinion of the "fix".
Especially as it looks like it was dressed down with a minigrinder.
 
It's John himself that has many posts in the Marstar forum that they have "the best warranty ever, not happy for any reason, return for full refund, you won't be out anything, we cover shipping/return shipping".
It was clearly stated by him, in the SVT Sniper ####show where he got schooled on what he was trying to pass off as "Real Genuine Snipers" which in fact all clearly were not (wow, kind of like this ####show). He tried to reassure people that there was "no risk" in buying from them because of the Ironclad Guarantee, if they were not as advertised or not happy for any reason send them back.
Then he threw a tantrum and sold them all overseas someplace mid discussion like a #####.
Good read, seriously...
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/984678-Svt-rifles?highlight=svt40
And LOOK at this bolt, Smithsauce got hosed on shipping because this isn't safe and John says #### You Buddy! There is a hole melted into the rear bolt lug...a big one.
attachment.php

attachment.php

SVT 40 ya can't go wrong with that rifle,
No regrets buying that at Marstar,
and I got one with the rail to boot....
 
The working theory is that they used cheap barrels that were breached up improperly and had chambers that were too long to pass german proof testing for .308 Winchester. They might have passed 7.62x51 field just fine - who knows?

The fronts of all the lugs looks to have been ground back and the rear of the lugs built up with weld to move the bolts closer to the chamber and shorten headspace - amateur style, that is.

Actually I think just the rear of the right bolt face was built up with weld and the left bolt lug was just ground completly out of contact with the receiver.

I took this picture of a rifle that I am sending back. You can clearly see huge gaps on the front and rear face of the left bolt lug :mad:

 
The locking faces of the lugs must be finished at the absolutely correct angle, and both lugs must engage the locking abutments in the receiver.
Bolts were made this way in original manufacture using precision machinery.
How were the lugs finished off after welding? By precision grinding using a sophisticated fixture?
Sure doesn't look like it in the photos.
Anyone check to see if both lugs are making at least 80% contact with the receiver abutments?

M-1 bolts were surface hardened. If you look around the web, you can learn the steel alloy used. Welding on a surface hardened piece is going to change the nature of the heat treatment. From the photos, the bolts were not re-heat treated after welding and grinding.

Just saw marcus1866 photo. There it is. Left lug cannot make proper contact, and the right lug shows discolouration from the welding/grinding. All load from firing will be taken only by the right lug, which has compromised heat treatment. This is absolutely unacceptable in my personal opinion.
 
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Actually I think just the rear of the right bolt face was built up with weld and the left bolt lug was just ground completly out of contact with the receiver.

I took this picture of a rifle that I am sending back. You can clearly see huge gaps on the front and rear face of the left bolt lug :mad:


That's enough to make you weep, and so unnecessary. We haven't heard/seen any reports of them messing up the bolt lug seats in the receivers on these. That would be a double disaster. Has anybody seen one of these with any markings on the right side of the barrel in the chamber area?
 
Taking a closer look at the first pic, it looks like an arc strike along the side of the bolt body.
This could indicate a stick electrode was used, rather than wirefeed.

It still doesnt change my opinion of the "fix".
Especially as it looks like it was dressed down with a minigrinder.

No, you had it right the first time. I called it as MIG less gass in an earlier post and Hitzy found the photo on the Hauck website where he has a wide feed welder out on the bench next to a bunch of grand parts.

Hauck: "I didn't weld on these... honest!" Yeah, right buddy...
 
Actually I think just the rear of the right bolt face was built up with weld and the left bolt lug was just ground completly out of contact with the receiver.

I took this picture of a rifle that I am sending back. You can clearly see huge gaps on the front and rear face of the left bolt lug :mad:


that looks like about 8%contact to me. i wonder how many rounds it would take before the bolt sheers
 
Surprising that it passed proof.
And if it was indeed proofed, the process could not possibly include visual inspection.

Anyone try removing the altered bolt, and checking headspace with an unaltered original bolt? It would be interesting to know just how bad things were before this bubbery was committed.
 
The locking faces of the lugs must be finished at the absolutely correct angle, and both lugs must engage the locking abutments in the receiver.
Bolts were made this way in original manufacture using precision machinery.
How were the lugs finished off after welding? By precision grinding using a sophisticated fixture?
Sure doesn't look like it in the photos.
Anyone check to see if both lugs are making at least 80% contact with the receiver abutments?

M-1 bolts were surface hardened. If you look around the web, you can learn the steel alloy used. Welding on a surface hardened piece is going to change the nature of the heat treatment. From the photos, the bolts were not re-heat treated after welding and grinding.

Just saw marcus1866 photo. There it is. Left lug cannot make proper contact, and the right lug shows discolouration from the welding/grinding. All load from firing will be taken only by the right lug, which has compromised heat treatment. This is absolutely unacceptable.

I see a bench grinder, but it seems to have a felt disc on it. Compressor near the welding station, maybe a high tech precision laser guided die grinder....lol
Belts under the vice with the M1 on it for a belt grinder.... probably that.
http://www.hauck-waffenbau.net/galerie-werkstattarbeiten/
Before pic.
cache_2463750287.png

cache_2463750286.png
 
Actually I think just the rear of the right bolt face was built up with weld and the left bolt lug was just ground completly out of contact with the receiver.

I took this picture of a rifle that I am sending back. You can clearly see huge gaps on the front and rear face of the left bolt lug :mad:


You beat me too it. I posted earlier that I was going to post some pictures showing how bad one of the rifles is that I have. I have you beat though, my left lug makes no contact at all. I took a similar picture to yours with a light under showing the gap. And the right lug on mine makes far less than 80% contact and shows evidence of seating (impact) against the receiver.

The receivers on my rifles do not appear to have been altered as far as I can tell. The threads may be bunged up but I would have to remove the barrels to be sure.

Tootall, we have met before through a mutual friend though you probably won't remember me. If you would like to see for yourself the rifles I was sent by Marstar let me know and we can meet up. If you know any knowledgeable people who would like to have a look too feel free to bring them along.
 
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