T2 Garand - Part 1
- Thread starter Dyspnea
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I think what you are seeing here is just the pure arrogance of J1 putting profits ahead of everything else. He isn't that dumb to know that these were fake junk manufactured rifles.
You are absolutely right that they should have been parted out when Marstar got a look at them in their warehouse, sell them as individual parts or "complete T2 clones no barrels or bolts". The problem with that is, the Dane receivers are selling for $30-$50, the stock sets and oprods are shortened and only really good for building a T2 which is difficult without a T2 barrel, still I'll price that high at $200 each ($400), trigger groups are fine ($150), gas cylinders are fine ($100), sights and small parts are fine ($200)....
So retail prices you might have $900 per rifle of parts, and that's optimistic IMHO. J1 wanted $1600-$1750 retail per rifle.
Now he's free to come in here and correct me at anytime, but I'd wager his markup was at least $1000 per rifle (ie his average landed cost per rifle was $675 or so, again probably on the high side, this number is likely lower). He still could have made a profit scrapping the bolts/barrels, but no where near what he could make if people buy his story these are T2's built at Terni on Dane receivers for the Dutch....
I think he wasn't expecting buyers to be knowledgeable about what they were buying, or about how fast word can get around about the safety of these rifles. Just hoping this all goes smoothly and nobody catches on...
It may be the first time they have actually sold junk to people but its not even close to the first time their descriptions could be considered more fantasy than reality. After paying close attention to the used rifle adds for a few years, I can say many people have been sold items that only vaguely resembled the description. Refurbs sold as all original are the norm, fake markings add value and above all, everything is a rare collectible. Once or twice can be written off to lack of knowledge but this seems a deliberate act to deceive.
Trying to sell unfit copies to collectors is not very smart, since most collectors and most shooters willing to spend that money on a rifle will likely know a little bit about what they are buying... Not withstanding them being unsafe garbage!
I agree, the two I saw were at least as bad and both of the barrels were not indexed properly.
Marstar had a video showing what was supposedly one of the rifles being fired with Hirtenberger ammo. It looked OK but now I wonder if the rifle used in the video was even from this group. John may have been duped but surely someone in his company inspected those rifles. If not, he definitely has to find out how this occurred. If he was complicit, which I find hard to believe, then there needs to be legal consequences.
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if he was "duped" its still no excuse to sell them ,and the people in the back who are inspecting them would surely have brought it to his attention,after all he knows all, sees all as we have been informed many times in the past if he was duped he should have done a recall, posted don't shoot them, but no, nothing anything like that. still advertiseing them and incorrectly at that. nothing has changed the only duped ones are the people who bought them I'm sure, and haven't figured it out yet
Don't forget they advertised the rifles in their forum section, and immediately locked it. They have never done that before, which seems to indicate they were expecting some backlash once these got out.
Add to that not clearly answering a single question about these rifles authenticity (T2 made for the Dutch on Dane receivers is BS), safety (claims they are safe despite what we see in phographic evidence to the contrary), and standing behind this BS as to why these don't qualify for shipping refunds when their Ironclad Guarantee clearly spells it out that they do... misrepresented items, defective items, clearly unsafe items.
Seems to me they are well aware from the beginning, just chose to be complete slimeballs about the whole mess from the start.
GunsNotPuns
CGN frequent flyer
Had John come into this thread when the first questions were raised and responded with, "Holy cow guys, that's wrong! Let's work together to figure this out and see what's what!" I think that would have a went a long way to ameliorating the situation. Instead he's been regularly checking in here and the only actual comments he made were to throw shade at two commentators over things that had nothing to do with the T2 rifles. He hasn't even acknowledged the issues outside of tacitly when he remarked on paying for shipping both ways (and then not doing so).
I don't know about you but if I spent, all said and done, $2,000, and bought something unsafe and the only response I got was overwhelming silence -- except for an off-topic insult -- I'd be out for blood too.
I've dealt with Marstar in the past but his response to this has completely put me off to ever doing so again.
From 7-20 to 8-10, and still no response. He obviously doesn't care that he sold a bunch of dangerous rifles, and actually went out of his way not to refund shipping, out of spite. Sort of sounding like a repeating record with the SVT rifles and "NM" M1 sights.
Absolutely pathetic showing, if GT is reviewing this thread I think its owed to the membership of this forum a review of their sponsorship.
Absolutely pathetic showing, if GT is reviewing this thread I think its owed to the membership of this forum a review of their sponsorship.
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Actually he has 95.1% feedback as of August 10th at 7:00pm EST.
Interesting factoid - if you dip below 95% on most gun trader forums, you get banned. Not sure if CGN has a similar policy or not.
Well, now ya done gone and got the svt thread locked in marstar's forum....asked about T2's and blamo! A response from John but of course, not about 'T2's'....and locked.
I really don't understand why he can't post in this thread regarding the issues with these rifles
I really don't understand why he can't post in this thread regarding the issues with these rifles
He made it clear.....there are NO SAFETY ISSUES OR ANY OTHER ISSUES WITH THESE T2 TERNI MADE M1'S.... THEY PASSED PROOFING IN GERMANY AND ARE COMPLETELY SAFE!
NO REFUNDS ON SHIPPING! YOU GOT EXACTLY WHAT WAS ADVERTISED! WHO YOU GONNA BELIEVE, SOME SO CALLED "EXPERTS" ON SOME ####TY FORUM THAT DOESN'T MAKE ME ENOUGH MONEY TO FEED MY GUARD DOGS, OR ME JOHNONE WHO HAS BEEN IN THE BUSINESS FOR 30 YEARS!
Until the issue at hand has been resolved I would hope that thread never dies before some unsuspecting purchaser does.
I would suggest that until EVEY one of those fake T2's is sent back to Marstar, this thread should not have "run its course".
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