newbie question about tokarev

VinnyQC

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
11   0   0
Location
Quebec city
Hi guys.
I'm a total newb about old milsurp. I'm interested into getting a TT-33, but my local shooting range forbids steel core ammos and steel jackets ammos, like a lot of interior ranges. Are the milsurp case of 7.62x25 (the 1260 and 2520 cans such as those sold at SFRC and TradeEx) steel jacket/core, or they're ok for these kind of ranges? They keep calling them "corrosive copper washed steel cased", so that's not much infos about their core or jackets. Anyone has tried to cut through a bullet with a wire cutter to see what the core and jacket are made of?

Other than that, is there any company that makes "soft" (for a lack of a better term) 7062x25 ammos? The Norincos or the sellier & bellot oks? The Norincos are "magnetic bimetal jackets" so I would guess that's a partially steel jacket, but the S&B are "normal FMJ bullets, not steel cored", so I would guess they'd be ok (can someone confirm that the jacket isn't steel?), but largely more expensive than the milsurp or the Norincos.

Any other round available that's non-steel and if possible not too expensive?

Thanks to everyone who'll chip in with infos and ideas.
 
There is no blanket answer. Maybe ask about specific ammo from a specific dealer.

Well, what I have found so far:
1-milsurp from TradeEx: https://www.tradeexcanada.com/conte...-russian-mfg-2520rd-crate-free-shipping-offer
2-milsurp From SFRC (I think it's the same thing): http://www.theammosource.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_108_123&products_id=13

Both are steel cased, so the fact that they stick to a magnet doesn't necessarily indicate that the bullets are made of steel, since the case would be attracted to a magnet anyway (unless I'm wrong about that? Total newb here!)

And in the non-milsurp:
3-S&B From SFRC: http://www.theammosource.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_108_123&products_id=865
4-Norinco from canada Ammo: https://www.canadaammo.com/product/detail/50-round-box-of-norinco-7-62x25-tokarev-85gr-fmj-variation

If you (or anyone else reading this) know for sure of any specific ammo from a specific dealer that would be a good option I'd be interested to know.
 
The Czech surplus I got from SFRC turned out to be steel core with a bimetal jacket, so doubly banned at my range.
The S&B commercial stuff is fine, and fairly hot too. If you've experienced the snap of .40S&W it's very similar.
 
This picture is typical military surplus 7,62x25:

Tok_rounds_03_zpsabaf5288.jpg


Both Czech surplus, but you can see the projectile on the right has a steel core (with a lead slug behind it) and the left is lead. However, both have a copper-wash steel *jacket*, which can be seen by how stiff and thick the ‘cap’ I peeled off is. That's what she said. This jacket can cause sparking, abrasion of lower-grade backstops, and ricochets by not allowing the bullet to ‘splat’ itself fully to expend its energy. The ones with the steel insert can have those things bounce all over the place, too.

Since all currently known surplus has a steel jacket, it's likely out for your range. Modern commercial Sellier & Bellot has standard brass-jacketed lead projectiles, in brass cases. Norinco has steel jackets does it not, and I'm not sure about any others? Do not confuse modern S&B in a green and red box with all the usual writing, and '50s surplus in a whitish cardboard box, bxn headstamp from the state factory which is now S&B. The old stuff came out of crates, and is the round in the picture above on the left.

Your *best* bet for indoor Tok is to get one in 9mm. Either a current Zastava M70a, one of the commercial Chinese models that came in 9mm or with both barrels, a scarcer version from Hungary or elsewhere, or a 9x19 accessory barrel on its own.

(You can also reload 7,62…)

If it sticks to a magnet, then it's no-go at our club. Needed to keep it simple.

I find this kind of regression to mediocrity deplorable; there is no reason to bar steel *cased* ammunition, and it only takes a minor investigation to confirm such composition.

Why does it _have_ to be so simple?
 
Last edited:
I suggest you don't get into a TT-33, to be perfectly honest. Crude pistol, bad sights, crappy trigger, poor ergonomics... unless you can safely shoot the cheap ammo, it makes it rather useless as factory ammo is expensive and you might as well get into a readily available caliber (like you can with the Star Super B in 9mm). Whether the Super B is a good firearm or not, you'd need to research it.

Just my opinion, I had one and got rid of it. Didn't really see the purpose of it as my range told me the surplus wasn't able to be shot there. Dumped it on the EE pretty quick.

I've stated this opinion before and I seem to be the minority. So investigate ammo price/surplus ammo at your range before you go for it. It's always your decision, but I got rid of mine really quick after buying it. I saw too many downsides to the pistol to keep it.
 
Thanks guys. Very helpful answers and comments. I understand now why they sell for 200$ even though ammos are super cheap.

I'll push the TT33 at the bottom of the buylist.
 
The TT is a no nonsense, very reliable pistol which I prefer over the modern stacked magazine offerings. Among its virtues are it's reasonable sized grip (no 17 or 19 round mags in Canada anyway) and the ability to hand load the magazines without carting around those silly magazine charges.

The short sighting radius and wide sights don't really lend themselves to range shooting at 25 yds. The TT is an "outside" pistol suited to 15-20 yds max.

The TT isn't for indoor ranges because of the bullet offerings, and the fact that the cases are ejected about 20 feet which won't make you popular with your fellow shooters. Surplus ammunition for the TT has gone up in price considerably (LGS $21/70rds). You can buy a tin or case for much less per round but this involves tying up quite a bit of money; investing this money in reloading equipment is a better choice. Anything other than surplus is equal in price to budget 9mm.
 
Thanks guys. Very helpful answers and comments. I understand now why they sell for 200$ even though ammos are super cheap.

I'll push the TT33 at the bottom of the buylist.

That's a shame. You're passing up a good pistol for a cheap price. I reload for mine, improved the rear sight with a small file, and really enjoy shooting it.
 
I'm not putting the tt-33 on a "never-gonna-buy" list, just on a "definitely-not-a-priority" list.

I would have bought the tt33 mostly for the low price of the gun (200$, that's what I burn in gas every month) and the price of the ammos (20¢/round for surplus, that's barely more than 22lr), but since the cheap ammos can't be shot at my range, the point is a bit moot. The S&B that I could use cost almost as much as new 45acp or 357magnum (I own guns in both calibre). A lot more than 9mm. At 20¢/round for milsurps, you can shoot high volume, but at 60¢/round for the S&B, I think I'd rather shoot my 1911, for now at least.

Of course when I do decide to get one, the price will have skyrocketed to some nonsense for some weird reason.

I think if someone manages to come up with some backstop material that would endure steel ammos, they'd get rich. Exterior ranges aren't really for me for different reasons, but I'd like to shoot inexpensive milsurp ammos in a TT-33, an SKS and a mosin-nagant. Considering that S&B manages to sell range-safe ammos for 3 times the price of milsurp, I'm probably not the only one.

Anyway, thanks guys, I'll come back to this forum when I have more questions about milsurp firearms/ammos. Helpful people here!
 
That's a shame. You're passing up a good pistol for a cheap price. I reload for mine, improved the rear sight with a small file, and really enjoy shooting it.

I eventually shot it at an outdoor range... it's fun to shoot. But at the end of the day, it's a really crude pistol and without the use of the cheap ammo - I can't recommend it in the least.

If the SKS wasn't capable of shooting cheap surplus ammo, I bet sales of it would grind to a halt. This is how I feel about the TT33. If I'm going to pay more money for factory ammo, I'll get a better pistol and shoot 9mm/40/45. It didn't fit me well, sights were crude and black on black, grip is tiny, cheap surplus ammo not allowed at my range... easy decision to get rid of it.

I have 2 Sig's and a Beretta that fit me like a glove. I got rid of everything else that I didn't like.
 
I got my RPAL last week and went on a spree
first to arrive was this beauty,i think they are like mosins or sks
everyone should have at least one
i purchased 4 pistols and First to arrive
1940 tula TT33

Stripped cleaned and lubed
 
This pistol offers two things - history background as ww2 sidearm and very powerful round, topped by even hotter Czech surplus. Ergonomic is not great, and choice of ammo is not for indoor range, but first two pros mean a lot for some ppl.
 
Did you just open the rear notch up a touch? I painted my front sight a hi viz green which helped a lot.

Yeah, I just squared up that U shape by filing in the corners. I didn't think about painting the front sight though. Have to try that.

I also took a file to the right rear corner of the mags- they were digging into my palm something fierce.
 
Back
Top Bottom