Why people hate wolves.

Demonical said:
...in Alberta, that moving on means horses, cattle, onto deer cuz the moose are all gone, etc...

A buddy I work with had a small herd of those little horses (I don't know the breed). They were basically family pets and they would take kids on them.

They started finding the little buggers eaten up. And they were being eaten alive. Horse would be down, in obvious distress, and it would have 25 or more pounds off meat gone. So they'd hafta put the thing down.

The landowner got trail cameras and set them up. But they weren't getting pics of what was doing it (initial thought was a pack of coyotes).

Eventually all six of his horses were killed, and maybe only a couple were killed out-right, four of them were still alive after the wolves had their feed. I saw the pictures. Horrible.

And they did finally get the photo evidence, off the trail cameras, that it was wolves killing the little buggers.

It wasn't all that long ago, that the story of the wolves 'sport killing' the herd of cow and calf elk was posted on here.

And I've seen how they have literally wiped out deer in some of the areas I hunt... this is because they've 'moved on' as you say... moved on from the moose herd which is decimated in the Swan Hills, to eating deer (coyotes are also a huge factor in the deer kill).


People that love wolves seems like they will never believe any of this.


And yeah, I pretty much got no use for wolves.


A dead wolf is a good wolf.
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Spoken like a true conservationist! You must be one of the guys investing dozens of hard earned dollars in game tags. You're not the type of hunter we need more of...although guys like you have their place in wildlife management.

Don't worry about the animals that someone else loses to predation. They have to look out for their own interests. In addition they may have insurance that will cover livestock. Should have put up a better fence and boarded the horses inside during night. Don't blame wolves for human negligence and incompetence.

I see anyone shooting wolves or coyotes out of season or off a road I'm reporting it immediately. 300 years ago we had enough wildlife to go around that no one cared about killing it. Now we don't have enough wildlife to go around because of people like you who treat it as worthless. But for a few trappers and tanneries and garment manufacturers who actuall shell out $750 for tanned gray wolf or $1400 for XXL prime tanned arctic wolf, you do them no favours.

Just because something is worthless to you does not mean you have the right to devalue the resource for others.
 
Funny I always love how people love to blame predators for the low game numbers. I have spent a lot of time in the bush from Northern ontario where my family has a hunt camp ( been going up since I was a kid ) to growing up on a large grape farm in southern ontario surounded by bush and farm land.

From my personal experiance i have found the big problem with low game numbers is the number one predator. Man from poaching to slaughtering animals one after the other with out any concern for conservation.

Example I know a guy I Orillia who shot twenty deer with a crossbow in one season. Baited them in and kept shooting using family tags who don't hunt perfectly legal but not ethical devistating g to the population.


Hunt camp next to us had twenty guys who shot 15 deer in a week devistating the population for years after plus the ten or so they wounded.

Found a moose a couple of years ago shot with a few chunks of meat cut off the hindquarters ant the rest left to rot.

I know a guy I worked with who told me they would poach at least ten deer a year when he grew up in the north. He said it was a normal thing poaching everyone did it no one was concerned not very much mnr to patrol all these areas.

The thing that pisses me off is poachers and people who can't shoot enough animals a year. Yes shooting animals with a tag is legal but there are hunters who can abuse the system it happens regularly.
 
All of the wolves that I have seen working in the bush (and it wasn't many) stayed well away from me. These are good normal wolves.

In deep bush, away from dumps and tourist areas, if they do not retreat from me and instead approach me then they will be shot if they come too close.

Same policy for bears.

If they keep their distance then great, the camera comes out.

I am at the top of the food chain.
 
umchorn2 said:
bearkilr,
I have seen the effects of the high side of the bear cycle on my deer and elk population. The old dominant deer & elk (4+ yr olds) are still in the area. There is even a young doe with fawn. Predators are opportunists. So are humans. If you want to maintain stable or growing wildlife populations in general here are some of the rules I follow. On my property they are laws.

1) Only shoot mature animals of the species, including predators, and generally only in years of noticable abundance (cyclical population high). This ensures proper herd age structure as the herd always has an animal to take the older animals place should it die.

2) Never shoot females of any species. You need them to breed. You are only one bad winter away from turing your population high into a population low.

3) Maintain the highest density of wildlife you can on the property. The animals will establish territories with dominant individuals "ruling the roost". Subordinate animals will leave the area or be chased away if the density becomes too great or predators will move in to thin the herd.

4) If there are no 5+ year old animals to shoot on the property, shoot a cull buck/bull which has 4 points or less per side and is mature (3.5 yrs old or older). He has no trophy potential but is fully grown and will yield maximum meat.

5) Improve or supplement the food on the property if need be. Keeping your herds healthy means providing proper nutrition, especially so pregnant females can have many healthy fawns and helps protect your herd from disease as the animals are in the best condition that they can be in at any given time.

6) Extensive surveillance of the property ensures the manager knows what is on the property during any given year. I have 13 trail cams on the property which capture travel corridors, bedding areas, and feeding areas. Without adequate surveillance and population surveys you will not be able to optimally put into practice and carry out a management plan.

7) Control access to authorized personnel only. People who you can trust to carry out your management philosophy. Quality deer/trophy management in this case. Make your management plan a condition of hunting permission on the property. You do not have to grant access to your property. If you do, clearly state your expectations to the hunter, including the animals that are on the hitlist and which are not. Involve your neighbours in wildlife management. Wildlife generally requires large areas of land to thrive and cooperating with neighbours to carry out some basic core priciples will go a long way to attracting, retaining, improving and increasing the quantity and quality of wildlife on your property and in the area.

8) Report trespassers and poachers. They don't help with the management plan. We have resource officers and courts for a reason. You pay a lot in taxes to have them, use them both.
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fantastic plan..... when the pack shows up you will not have to worry your pretty little liberal mind about implementing your plan as the pack will clear out all of the animals, and then move on to the next liberal moron's land. Bears are different than wolves and you had better learn the difference
 
Amelio said:
Funny I always love how people love to blame predators for the low game numbers. I have spent a lot of time in the bush from Northern ontario where my family has a hunt camp ( been going up since I was a kid ) to growing up on a large grape farm in southern ontario surounded by bush and farm land.

From my personal experiance i have found the big problem with low game numbers is the number one predator. Man from poaching to slaughtering animals one after the other with out any concern for conservation.

Example I know a guy I Orillia who shot twenty deer with a crossbow in one season. Baited them in and kept shooting using family tags who don't hunt perfectly legal but not ethical devistating g to the population.


Hunt camp next to us had twenty guys who shot 15 deer in a week devistating the population for years after plus the ten or so they wounded.

Found a moose a couple of years ago shot with a few chunks of meat cut off the hindquarters ant the rest left to rot.

I know a guy I worked with who told me they would poach at least ten deer a year when he grew up in the north. He said it was a normal thing poaching everyone did it no one was concerned not very much mnr to patrol all these areas.

The thing that pisses me off is poachers and people who can't shoot enough animals a year. Yes shooting animals with a tag is legal but there are hunters who can abuse the system it happens regularly.
Click to expand...

You should see what a pack can do
 
Amelio said:
Funny I always love how people love to blame predators for the low game numbers. I have spent a lot of time in the bush from Northern ontario where my family has a hunt camp ( been going up since I was a kid ) to growing up on a large grape farm in southern ontario surounded by bush and farm land.

From my personal experiance i have found the big problem with low game numbers is the number one predator. Man from poaching to slaughtering animals one after the other with out any concern for conservation.

Example I know a guy I Orillia who shot twenty deer with a crossbow in one season. Baited them in and kept shooting using family tags who don't hunt perfectly legal but not ethical devistating g to the population.


Hunt camp next to us had twenty guys who shot 15 deer in a week devistating the population for years after plus the ten or so they wounded.

Found a moose a couple of years ago shot with a few chunks of meat cut off the hindquarters ant the rest left to rot.

I know a guy I worked with who told me they would poach at least ten deer a year when he grew up in the north. He said it was a normal thing poaching everyone did it no one was concerned not very much mnr to patrol all these areas.

The thing that pisses me off is poachers and people who can't shoot enough animals a year. Yes shooting animals with a tag is legal but there are hunters who can abuse the system it happens regularly.
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You think the loss of 20 deer is "devastating"?? You're wrong.

We had that many die on our tiny 21 acres in the winter of 2012-13 due to a hard crust under the snow and high population numbers. Starved to death, disease ridden due to overpopulation. Pregnant does aborting their fetuses from malnutrition.

Some @sshole neighbor killing 20 dear a year where you grew up sipping pinot, next to Wayne Gretzky and your other vintner pals, is literally like pissing in the ocean.

GGG
 
umchorn2 said:
bearkilr,
I have seen the effects of the high side of the bear cycle on my deer and elk population. The old dominant deer & elk (4+ yr olds) are still in the area. There is even a young doe with fawn. Predators are opportunists. So are humans. If you want to maintain stable or growing wildlife populations in general here are some of the rules I follow. On my property they are laws.

1) Only shoot mature animals of the species, including predators, and generally only in years of noticable abundance (cyclical population high). This ensures proper herd age structure as the herd always has an animal to take the older animals place should it die.

2) Never shoot females of any species. You need them to breed. You are only one bad winter away from turing your population high into a population low.

3) Maintain the highest density of wildlife you can on the property. The animals will establish territories with dominant individuals "ruling the roost". Subordinate animals will leave the area or be chased away if the density becomes too great or predators will move in to thin the herd.

4) If there are no 5+ year old animals to shoot on the property, shoot a cull buck/bull which has 4 points or less per side and is mature (3.5 yrs old or older). He has no trophy potential but is fully grown and will yield maximum meat.

5) Improve or supplement the food on the property if need be. Keeping your herds healthy means providing proper nutrition, especially so pregnant females can have many healthy fawns and helps protect your herd from disease as the animals are in the best condition that they can be in at any given time.

6) Extensive surveillance of the property ensures the manager knows what is on the property during any given year. I have 13 trail cams on the property which capture travel corridors, bedding areas, and feeding areas. Without adequate surveillance and population surveys you will not be able to optimally put into practice and carry out a management plan.

7) Control access to authorized personnel only. People who you can trust to carry out your management philosophy. Quality deer/trophy management in this case. Make your management plan a condition of hunting permission on the property. You do not have to grant access to your property. If you do, clearly state your expectations to the hunter, including the animals that are on the hitlist and which are not. Involve your neighbours in wildlife management. Wildlife generally requires large areas of land to thrive and cooperating with neighbours to carry out some basic core priciples will go a long way to attracting, retaining, improving and increasing the quantity and quality of wildlife on your property and in the area.

8) Report trespassers and poachers. They don't help with the management plan. We have resource officers and courts for a reason. You pay a lot in taxes to have them, use them both.
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Thanks for the edification. Unfortunately, wolves won't follow any of your "8 steps to hunting happiness" and you'll be left with little love for them when they discover your little Eden. I don't hate wolves, but I have a realistic view of them due to a fair amount of personal experience.
 
Every wolf thread is the same just like the bear Defense threads and go's no where fast Haahaa
There's an obvious need to manage both Wolfs and deer,moose,elk etc.
In the case of wolfs and coyotes it's the trapper that make the Biggest difference not the land owners or Hunter even with the best of intentions

I would love to see sum actual wolf hunting and photos
Plus sum story's from the trapper and photos don't know how then he wolf trappers ther are on CGN
 
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Gunneegoogoo said:
You think the loss of 20 deer is "devastating"?? You're wrong.

We had that many die on our tiny 21 acres in the winter of 2012-13 due to a hard crust under the snow and high population numbers. Starved to death, disease ridden due to overpopulation. Pregnant does aborting their fetuses from malnutrition.

Some @sshole neighbor killing 20 dear a year where you grew up sipping pinot, next to Wayne Gretzky and your other vintner pals, is literally like pissing in the ocean.

GGG
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20 deer killed in a highly populated area like yours may not be a big deal and would likely benefit the herd, but 20 deer killed in an area with a low population density can definitely be devastating.
 
If we can't find it in ourselves as a hunting community, as men, and as a species to protect our valuable natural resources, wolves included, then our future we will be as an impoverished species.

Are we so poor that we cannot afford to lose a few livestock and big game animals every year in order to keep the symbol of our most successful and oldest domestication of a species alive? Our oldest deomestication of any species on the planet - the wolf into our most beloved pet...dogs. Over 10,000 years of history together. Are we so poor that a few $5 bales of alfalfa are out of reach to supplementally feed our deer and elk herds through hard winters?



I refuse to live in a world of poverty but choose one of plenty. We should have every forest with a pack of wolves and so many other big game animals that each man has his choice of animal a hundred times over. Our ponds and waterways should be so overflowed with muskrat, beaver and fish that every man would be clothed in the finest pelts should he so choose.

But men like many of you chose long ago that a scarce resource was preferable to a plentiful one and instead of taking life when one needs to you took it for granted. Now we must fight with each other for tags in a draw for what few animals remain.

Men like many of you on this forum chose scarcity over plenty. And it's up to men like us to take control of our resources and start rebuilding wildlife populations to restore our natural wealth.
 
umchorn2 said:
If we can't find it in ourselves as a hunting community, as men, and as a species to protect our valuable natural resources, wolves included, then our future we will be as an impoverished species.

Are we so poor that we cannot afford to lose a few livestock and big game animals every year in order to keep the symbol of our most successful and oldest domestication of a species alive? Our oldest deomestication of any species on the planet - the wolf into our most beloved pet...dogs. Over 10,000 years of history together. Are we so poor that a few $5 bales of alfalfa are out of reach to supplementally feed our deer and elk herds through hard winters?



I refuse to live in a world of poverty but choose one of plenty. We should have every forest with a pack of wolves and so many other big game animals that each man has his choice of animal a hundred times over. Our ponds and waterways should be so overflowed with muskrat, beaver and fish that every man would be clothed in the finest pelts should he so choose.

But men like many of you chose long ago that a scarce resource was preferable to a plentiful one and instead of taking life when one needs to you took it for granted. Now we must fight with each other for tags in a draw for what few animals remain.

Men like many of you on this forum chose scarcity over plenty. And it's up to men like us to take control of our resources and start rebuilding wildlife populations to restore our natural wealth.
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So, how do you plan to deal with unregulated Native hunting, in your idealistic world ? :confused:
 
Grizzly Adams said:
So, how do you plan to deal with unregulated Native hunting, in your idealistic world ? :confused:
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Firstly, in my world, I live by my ideals and I don't compromise my principles. I set goals and I achieve them. Some of you on these forums talk a lot when you should be following through and getting it done.

The Natives are some of the largest landholders in Canada next to "Crown Lands". They're lands are some of the largest unfractured continous lands in the country. They are my neighbours to the south. Like with all my neighbours I plan to cooperate with them to be good stewards of the land and its natural resources and through common interests we share, we will also shares in the benefits that come from achieving common goals in conservation and sustainable land management.

Wildlife was far more prolific prior to European involvement in this country and Natives will be key to maintaining a prosperous natural wealth moving forward. I refuse to have my lands degraded to the same degree as provincial forests and I make this clear to my government as well as my neighbours that this is my expectation from them. They know that I bought my property to produce wildlife and some of them benefit from my good management of the resource as do I benefit from their good stewardship.

Many Natives realize that they are critically important in wildlife management. Only a few from their bands will be responsible for a majority of crimes against wildlife. Those men must be singled out and dealt with swiftly and punished accordingly.
 
canadian hunter312 said:
20 deer killed in a highly populated area like yours may not be a big deal and would likely benefit the herd, but 20 deer killed in an area with a low population density can definitely be devastating.
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How low?? Like tour local petting zoo??

I'm no wildlife biologist, but I can read maps and do math good. 20 is a drop in the bucket anywhere in this vast homeland of ours.

We're talking about deer here, something many consider vermin, not whooping cranes, or ghost Grizzlies.

If you are a wildlife biologist, I concede. If your just a guy, like me, you're wrong.

GGG
 
Canadian average of native people is 4%
Haida Gwaii we are 50% native we are unregulated hunters except limits that we placed on ourselves
We do not have a shortage of wildlife in fact we have the most generous General rifle season and The longest hunting season in all of Canada as well as the largest bag limit of 15 deer
The numbers speak for themselves
So you have to ask yourself why On Haida Gwaii there is a abundance of deer probably have something to do with no wolfs or coyotes
We are also the only place in Canada that has a natural population a peregrine falcons because we never had to poison wolves not much farming so no pesticides
Besides man Eagles and the odd black bears deer have it pretty good on Haida Gwaii
 
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How could anyone hate Wolves? If it wasn't for Wolves there wouldn't be Dogs.

99% of a Dogs DNA is Wolf.
 
umchorn2 said:
If we can't find it in ourselves as a hunting community, as men, and as a species to protect our valuable natural resources, wolves included, then our future we will be as an impoverished species.

Are we so poor that we cannot afford to lose a few livestock and big game animals every year in order to keep the symbol of our most successful and oldest domestication of a species alive? Our oldest deomestication of any species on the planet - the wolf into our most beloved pet...dogs. Over 10,000 years of history together. Are we so poor that a few $5 bales of alfalfa are out of reach to supplementally feed our deer and elk herds through hard winters?



I refuse to live in a world of poverty but choose one of plenty. We should have every forest with a pack of wolves and so many other big game animals that each man has his choice of animal a hundred times over. Our ponds and waterways should be so overflowed with muskrat, beaver and fish that every man would be clothed in the finest pelts should he so choose.

But men like many of you chose long ago that a scarce resource was preferable to a plentiful one and instead of taking life when one needs to you took it for granted. Now we must fight with each other for tags in a draw for what few animals remain.

Men like many of you on this forum chose scarcity over plenty. And it's up to men like us to take control of our resources and start rebuilding wildlife populations to restore our natural wealth.
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Sounds like you are living in a Disney movie.
 
I'm going to say this again are biggest problem with game population is poachers. If you realized the number of animals that are getting killed a year it would probably blow your mind. Poaching is common practice in rural areas.

A wolf pack is no comparison to a man with a high power gun.
 
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