Military Grade Smoke Grenades or Closest we can legally get you! - ASKING YOU!

Well....I'm a little disappointed on the price jump too. These things will be double the original projected cost after the next surprise price jump. I figured you would take something away from the Flashbang group buy learning lesson. This just means my order will go from 12-6. I also would like to hear a few answers to a few questions that have been asked.

A video would be nice as well, I've been disappointed with the volume of other smoke signals sold in Canada. At 50 bucks a pop I doubt I would fork over 600-700 bucks for 12 without them being produced and seeing how well they work. I committed to the Flashbang group buy after the video came out. Then the three weeks turned into nine weeks for production. I think it's time for Lockhart to step up and talk the walk. How can you expect us to pay 50 bucks a unit to basically foot the bill on these without any info? I ain't spending 6-7 bills for a picture of something that we can't see. You say 4-5 weeks but that can turn into a quarter of a year.

Seriously I would like these and think they are cool as hell but it kind feels like your playing games with us. Maybe someone with the know how can set up one huge CGN group buy with shipping available to see if we can hit 500. I know I'm down for a dozen at the original price but as the projected price goes up the projected quantity will go down. Just sayin
 
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Repper said:
I'm a little disappointed on the price jump too. These things will be double the original projected cost after the next surprise price jump. That just means my order will go from 12-6. I also would like to hear a few answers to a few questions that have been asked.
A video would be good as well, I've been disappointed with the volume of other smoke's. At 50 bucks a pop I doubt I would fork over
300-400 bucks without seeing how they work. I think it's time for Lockhart to step up and talk the walk
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They've been asked the same questions multiple times and haven't answered. I'm guessing they have NO IDEA about the unit, because it's new and hasn't been tested, so instead of coming out with info, they're coming out fast with pricing to take all of our money.

It really shows what's important to them.
 
They clearly didn't research the market, there are a few other smoke grenade products on the market, with pull designs for $10-20 each depending on the size and amount of smoke. Until we get specs on these, there is no way I'll consider paying 500% markup.
 
polskadude said:
They clearly didn't research the market, there are a few other smoke grenade products on the market, with pull designs for $10-20 each depending on the size and amount of smoke. Until we get specs on these, there is no way I'll consider paying 500% markup.
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Im sure he did do a little research first, hence the projected cost of $25-30. But then realized the demand on this site and his FB poll, hence the "new" price..........hmmmm "FLASH BACK"
 
polskadude said:
They clearly didn't research the market, there are a few other smoke grenade products on the market, with pull designs for $10-20 each depending on the size and amount of smoke. Until we get specs on these, there is no way I'll consider paying 500% markup.
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1) From all the other units on the market,There are no others that have a Pull Pin and Spoon, which our units do. That made the cost go up from our projections. However that's what our clients wanted...

2) The other smoke units on the market won't have the duration and density of our units.

3) Our MFG couldn't get some of the materials locally (potassium nitrate), due to it being very hard to get. Instead they ordered it in from the USA (Tennessee), this made the unit cost go up a few dollars.

4) "pull designs for $10-20", is not comparable to our project.
a) Our units aren't a cardboard tube.
b) Our units are made here in Canada. I'm not sure about the others. Were keeping money here in Canada, being spent on Canadians.
Which should count for something as we all know... the budget doesn't balance itself...
c) We're using the exact same materials internally as the M18 which is our target goal. I actually want to have our units beat the M18 for duration and smoke density output.

The only reason I opened PREORDER is because I know how well these are going to do. Who wouldn't want a super cool product?

More info to follow! :)

Next week we should have some videos made and we'll post.

If you guys really think about it, We proposed this idea to you not too long ago, and we are already about to go into full production. We're trying to keep everything fast and effective for you guys.
 
Repper said:
Well....I'm a little disappointed on the price jump too. These things will be double the original projected cost after the next surprise price jump. I figured you would take something away from the Flashbang group buy learning lesson. This just means my order will go from 12-6. I also would like to hear a few answers to a few questions that have been asked.

A video would be nice as well, I've been disappointed with the volume of other smoke signals sold in Canada. At 50 bucks a pop I doubt I would fork over 600-700 bucks for 12 without them being produced and seeing how well they work. I committed to the Flashbang group buy after the video came out. Then the three weeks turned into nine weeks for production. I think it's time for Lockhart to step up and talk the walk. How can you expect us to pay 50 bucks a unit to basically foot the bill on these without any info? I ain't spending 6-7 bills for a picture of something that we can't see. You say 4-5 weeks but that can turn into a quarter of a year.

Seriously I would like these and think they are cool as hell but it kind feels like your playing games with us. Maybe someone with the know how can set up one huge CGN group buy with shipping available to see if we can hit 500. I know I'm down for a dozen at the original price but as the projected price goes up the projected quantity will go down. Just sayin
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richmyster said:
Seriously with the pricing? I may bow out on principle. I'm starting to get annoyed with these guys and the sweet talk.

If you don't want to have pissed off customers don't BS about the future when you have no idea/ plan to hose everyone on the price anyways. 500 units to get it down to making it affordable?

Buzz off.
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cman said:
$15 915.99 - total cost to buy these at the top end of original pricing....

Anyone else want to spend this much on product that does not exist yet?
If so please send me your visa and password and ill get right on it. f:P:2:
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Okay guys, so although you may think we're trying to screw someone... we're not.
First off, the price is highly dictated by what our MFG can build them for. Then we have to decide a fair mark up.
Last week when we opened our POLL, after talking to the MFG more about pricing after they had to order in stuff from the USA etc and have it freighted over, I released some pricing estimated on our POLL.
The exact question I posted on that POLL was: How many units do you plan on ordering? We are expecting to have a price set around 35-45$ a unit. These will be the BEST in Canada.
Which is pretty incredible I think, considering that when buying BULK, you get $5 less per unit than our expected cost, and for buying only a single unit, its still only $5 more then we expected.

I think it's also fair to say that you're comparing the civi available gear on the market right now, to what we're bringing to the table. And Yes for sure, we will have videos next week!

To reply to a direct quote: "500 units to get it down to making it affordable? Buzz off."
Looking at our Data from the Flash Bangs, This is what YOU the people wanted.

We know you're interested in group buys. Which is important! It's a great way to meet new people in the shooting community, and working together as a team brings lower individual costs.
We have flat rate shipping options, so even though it costs us a lot, we ship it for a low rate.

People were ordering hundreds and hundreds of flash units at a time in group buys.

What we did here was two things.
1) We're being 100% transparent with the cost. At 30.24 (our lowest price tier), after we factor in shipping costs to us and then to you, we are making around 2$ a unit, before actually doing any work.
We collect the order, We package it up, We update the orders and Ship it. We are almost always available to answer questions, comments and concerns. I think we provide some of the best customer service around and i'm proud to say I love my job. I'm proud to be a part of the industry and to serve our clients. When we know we are going to be super swamped and need to push out a huge volume of boxes in one to two days (Like we did with the flash units), we bring in more temp staff to get it done. Once we factor all tat in, 2$ profit per unit isn't very much in bulk

Having a preset bulk pricing will allow us to hopefully push our units into other stores. Meaning they are available for pick up the second you want them vs shipping. On top of that, I don't think anyone should have to work for free. If a group buy organizer wants to take all of the time and do the work to facilitate a group buy, I think it's only fair he or she can make a few dollars for all their efforts to save the rest of those members some dollars. I doubt anyone likes working for free, so I think it's fair to them.

2) Pricing Discount Schedule
Unit Volume
Discount
1+0% = 49.99
5+5% = 47.50
10+10% =45.12
25+15% = 42.49
100+28% = 36.19
250+35% = 32.57
500+
40% = 30.24












I'm not sure if you guys had a chance to look at this which is posted on our product on our site :CLICK HERE,
But I think the numbers make a lot of sense.

If you want one unit, no problem.
If you are interested in 5, we knock it down 5%
If you want 10, Buy alone, or with one friend, save 10%,
25 (Small group buy), 15% OFF. I think that's very reasonable.
100 (Decent size group buy) get 28% OFF which is an extra 13% jump for the extra work the organizer is going to do
250 (Big group buy) rewards you with 35% OFF, another 7% decrease in cost and almost hitting our rock bottom price which is basically our cost.
500 (Stores, or motivated organizers) 40% off, no bs.

Canada has over 2 Million firearm owners... that's a lot.
On top of that, some of these members who are not firearm owners are Airsoft players, Paint Ballers, Larpers Hikers and people who would just want to have some units to play around with for fun or have them for being located in an emergency.

We took all of this into consideration.
they will not be hard to sell once we finish getting the word out.

We tried to REWARD everyone with great pricing.

So to recap:
- We went from an IDEA to lets get on full production in 12 days!
(We posted the idea on the 7th of NOV, and it's now the 19th)
- Our unit is our own design.
- It has all the cool, fun, features of an M18 that you wanted. It's not like anything else on the civilian market.
- And I think you'll agree the pricing is actually pretty fair!

We hope this helps answer some questions, and we'd be more than happy to keep answering them.
Nothing we do is to EVER "SCREW our customers".

Thanks guys.
 
gunnyee12 said:
Im sure he did do a little research first, hence the projected cost of $25-30. But then realized the demand on this site and his FB poll, hence the "new" price..........hmmmm "FLASH BACK"
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Sir on our Facebook poll, we did have these prices: "How many units do you plan on ordering? We are expecting to have a price set around 35-45$ a unit. These will be the BEST in Canada."
I think for most people who are buying these, they are easily fitting in this range.
 
Foxer2373 said:
Saw this as well, I don't normally call a company out or price complain by this is 100% hey look at the group buys for flashbangs let's do that again but with a larger profit margin. Sorry for 50$ a throw I will buy your customer list on these, my rocks that will ward off tigers (only in Canada and not at the zoo) will be for sale and I'm going to need these kind of customers! Order 500 for $30.00 a piece even at 2$ Profit each that is a 40% mark up over singles... sorry your tactics here has cost you a customer and I am sure more than one. Spend $15,000 and receive the top end of our projected cost or buy one and we will Donald trump you.

You make ask a mod to delete this comment or you can look at what you have done here.
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I don't want to delete any of your quote to take it out of context, but here is how I feel.
You are calling us out because we offer 40% OFF for bulk buys, vs individuals. I would like you to go to any store and see what their average mark up is on a product. 40% is not a massive mark up. If you look at our pricing schedule you posted, you'll see the discounts come pretty darn fast!

Thanks sir!
 
gunnyee12 said:
Samuel

how about answering some of the questions first.

1-smoke cu/ft?
2-burn duration?
3-hot or cold?
4-rechargeable?
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I'm answering these to the best of my ability, as next week i'll have more info

But this is what our MFG is telling me so far.

1) Should have this number next week
2) Burn duration should be 60-90 seconds. I'm trying to get them to make our units a bit taller to add more burn time.
3) These will be hot, but we're trying to keep that down to a minimum so it's not a big fire hazard.
4) Non rechargeable. Rechargeable would make the cost go up, and would always be so filthy due to the hot smokey mess burning all over it. You would not want to recharge them.
 
lockharttactical said:
Sir on our Facebook poll, we did have these prices: "How many units do you plan on ordering? We are expecting to have a price set around 35-45$ a unit. These will be the BEST in Canada."
I think for most people who are buying these, they are easily fitting in this range.
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To me this poll question was misleading. "price set around 35-45$ a unit" to me this means prices start in this range for a single unit.
 
Gonna take a huge PASS on this one, good luck.....not worth the price. Especially if not rechargeable.
 
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No specs, more price shenanigans. I'll have to take a pass on these too. There is some decent competition.

The whole flash bang price jump left a bad taste in my mouth. This looks like more of the same and makes me think that this is business as usual at Lockhart. As a person driven by principles, I would rather go elsewhere.
 
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