So I ordered a couple NEF taps from amazon.... did I waste my money? Can anybody point me to where I can get a decent NEF set and a BA set ??? (ive been eyeballing a set on amazon thats around $100) Im far from a machinist, but they will all get used again and again over time.....
chinese taps and such
- Thread starter wd113
- Start date
- Location
- Union Bay Vancouver Island BC
where are you in the world?
It the taps feel sharp whe you get themm they will work. you will know a good tap as it cuts without resistance. A bad tap feel like you have to force it and then POP! it usually breaks...
use lube too!!! very important and dont try to turn the tap in all in one go.. in 1-1/2 then out a half. repeat.. Just sayin' . you may already know this however and if so.. I apologize for preaching.
where are you in the world?
It the taps feel sharp whe you get themm they will work. you will know a good tap as it cuts without resistance. A bad tap feel like you have to force it and then POP! it usually breaks...
use lube too!!! very important and dont try to turn the tap in all in one go.. in 1-1/2 then out a half. repeat.. Just sayin' . you may already know this however and if so.. I apologize for preaching.
where are you in the world?
- Location
- Union Bay Vancouver Island BC
One thing about "kits" is that they certainly look pretty impressive. Some of the kits are so cheap that you can't even purchase one good tap with appropriate drill bit for the same price. Still, I would purchase only the taps and appropriate drill bits as needed. Keep those specific drill bits separate from your regular use set.
You can get away with some cheap tools but when it comes to drill bits and taps, you get exactly what you pay for.
That being said, it's getting really difficult to find the good stuff anymore without going to a specialty Tool catalog. Same goes for good lathe bits. That's one reason carbide is so popular. Not the only reason though.
The above posters are correct. Buy the best from the get go and don't worry about it again. Good taps can be resharpened if needed. Not often but at least you have the option. Good taps are easier to cut with and keep straight because of this.
One little trick, it depends on the job but if you can, bolt the piece to be tapped down onto the plate of your drill press, chuck up the bit and BY HAND turn the tap slightly into the hole. DON"T USE POWER.
A very light bit of force on the feed handle will ensure a nice even cut from the start that is true to the hole.
If I'm going to drill and tap a hole, especially a receiver, I make sure the markings for the holes are properly aligned to the axis of the action. NOTHING WORSE than offset scope mount holes. I have found, especially with small holes, that it is in my best interest to use a very rigid centering bit to start the hole. This will eliminate the tip wandering when pressure is applied to a regular twist drill. Another thing to be very careful with is that you strike your center punch at exactly 90 degrees to the hole being drilled. This isn't as tedious with a centering bit but it is one of the main causes for twist drill bits to wander off center.
Drilling and tapping isn't difficult when it's done properly. It is a learned SKILL though and needs a bit of practice to get it right first time, every time. Nothing makes a fellow look more incompetent/sloppy than misaligned and poorly drilled and tapped holes. In more ways than one.
You can get away with some cheap tools but when it comes to drill bits and taps, you get exactly what you pay for.
That being said, it's getting really difficult to find the good stuff anymore without going to a specialty Tool catalog. Same goes for good lathe bits. That's one reason carbide is so popular. Not the only reason though.
The above posters are correct. Buy the best from the get go and don't worry about it again. Good taps can be resharpened if needed. Not often but at least you have the option. Good taps are easier to cut with and keep straight because of this.
One little trick, it depends on the job but if you can, bolt the piece to be tapped down onto the plate of your drill press, chuck up the bit and BY HAND turn the tap slightly into the hole. DON"T USE POWER.
A very light bit of force on the feed handle will ensure a nice even cut from the start that is true to the hole.
If I'm going to drill and tap a hole, especially a receiver, I make sure the markings for the holes are properly aligned to the axis of the action. NOTHING WORSE than offset scope mount holes. I have found, especially with small holes, that it is in my best interest to use a very rigid centering bit to start the hole. This will eliminate the tip wandering when pressure is applied to a regular twist drill. Another thing to be very careful with is that you strike your center punch at exactly 90 degrees to the hole being drilled. This isn't as tedious with a centering bit but it is one of the main causes for twist drill bits to wander off center.
Drilling and tapping isn't difficult when it's done properly. It is a learned SKILL though and needs a bit of practice to get it right first time, every time. Nothing makes a fellow look more incompetent/sloppy than misaligned and poorly drilled and tapped holes. In more ways than one.
I have to entirely agree with most people in this thread. I use taps and dies professionally on a daily basis, both in an industrial setting and in a shop setting. You get what you pay for and imo if you can buy toilet paper from the same store you bought your taps their going to be #### taps.
I do what was said above, for work and home. I buy the taps I need as I need them and tbh I almost always eND up spending around 10-20$ for one tap. Drill bits I have two drill indexes that cost about $500 each and I replace as they break. You don't need to go that excessive but when your looking down the bore of a hole in your work piece at the unmistakable view of a broken Chinese tap, after about an hour of trying to extract it chip by chip you will think back to the advice given here and go buy good taps. Save yourself that headache right from the get go! Just my .02 I don't mean to sound like an ####### if it came off that way
I do what was said above, for work and home. I buy the taps I need as I need them and tbh I almost always eND up spending around 10-20$ for one tap. Drill bits I have two drill indexes that cost about $500 each and I replace as they break. You don't need to go that excessive but when your looking down the bore of a hole in your work piece at the unmistakable view of a broken Chinese tap, after about an hour of trying to extract it chip by chip you will think back to the advice given here and go buy good taps. Save yourself that headache right from the get go! Just my .02 I don't mean to sound like an ####### if it came off that way
gstprecision
Regular
- Location
- Frankford, On
I would not go as far as saying all Chinese taps are garbage.
I buy my taps from an industrial supplier. Most of them run between $5-$20, my last one was $45. Some of them are made in China and they work good. Obviously there is quality control, as Kwoodward said, if you get your taps from the same place you get your TP then you will be crying...
GST
I buy my taps from an industrial supplier. Most of them run between $5-$20, my last one was $45. Some of them are made in China and they work good. Obviously there is quality control, as Kwoodward said, if you get your taps from the same place you get your TP then you will be crying...
GST
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^ Thats what Im afraid of... point taken ... and thank you for the drill press idea bearhunter. And yes Mr.Jeffery I know all to well about forcing anything (many a tap, and countless drill bits has taught me) Im near Woodstock ON.
Oh and Kamlooky, I had to chuckle.... I have a 'blue' metric set hiding in a drawer somewhere...
Thanks guys
Bought a couple oddballs from eBay/china to do muzzle breaks. For a few holes and used on a lathe, they were fine. Probably 1/8 the price of a North American made equivalent. I still have nice taps for work. Depends what you need. If you need to depend on them, they'll cost you. I've probably got $3-$4k taps and drill bits in one drawer of my toolbox
Thanks, I just bought a set.
Thing about Canadian tire is their prices on an item are all over the map, just happened to be too god a deal that week to turn down. Light use I have, will probably last forever. Grizz
Thanks, I just bought a set.
Grizz
They are good'nuff to chase threads.
I sure wouldn't take one to a receiver to tap a ring base hole.
Dem gawd deals can bite yer arse iff'in yer nawt pain tenshun.
- Location
- Union Bay Vancouver Island BC
"chinese taps, chinese threads"
IF the taps feel sharp in your hand , probability is they will do a good job. If they feel dull and "slidy" on your skin and the cuff of your shirt.... toss it or use one that graps the fibers on your shirt and skin... its a "feel" thing... you'll know what I mean when you can compare old/used to new, cheap to expensive, dull to sharp.
IF the taps feel sharp in your hand , probability is they will do a good job. If they feel dull and "slidy" on your skin and the cuff of your shirt.... toss it or use one that graps the fibers on your shirt and skin... its a "feel" thing... you'll know what I mean when you can compare old/used to new, cheap to expensive, dull to sharp.
Buy the best taps you can find in the sizes you need. OSG is my first go to, but they don't do much odd stuff. Taylor Tool (made in Canada) has a lot of odd stuff, maybe BA too, never asked, never needed as its pretty obsolete.
Then there's Dormer stuff too and a few others and house brands that mostly go downhill from there.
KBC has some odd ones too but mostly TMX brand which is generally places like poland and such, not as bad as china, but not as good as the best.
Taps are dull and done well before they begin to feel dull to anyone's finger tips. Most people think taps are good until the break, they aren't. Monitor their use, throw away before they break.
Then there's Dormer stuff too and a few others and house brands that mostly go downhill from there.
KBC has some odd ones too but mostly TMX brand which is generally places like poland and such, not as bad as china, but not as good as the best.
Taps are dull and done well before they begin to feel dull to anyone's finger tips. Most people think taps are good until the break, they aren't. Monitor their use, throw away before they break.
- Location
- pallisers triangle
There is a small shop in Calgary, whom I like to support. MacDougalls tool supply. he has everything, and if he doesn't have it, he can have it shortly. ive delt with him forever, and he knows his stuff. BA, metric, anything he usualy has it . he also doe not sell cheep quality equipment
I usually recommend the CTire tap set, when it's on sale at the usual 70% off (does anyone actually buy at full price?), as you sorta never know when you may need one size or another.
Truth be told, having worked in a shop where we had complete sets of fractions up well past one inch, in both coarse and fine sets, Metric, BA, BSW, BSF sets (for working on old Rolls Royce jet engines), as well as a number set including the Extra Fine series and a bunch of NS threads, buying sets was mostly a waste of money from a practical perspective. The sets are so you have the stuff in hand when the job walks in the door. The taps that got used regularly, all had boxed up spare sets (Starting, Plug, Bottoming) of taps as spares, bought for use.
Whether or not you would tap a gun with a CTire tap is kinda a moot point, unless you want to use screws too coarse to mount gun fittings, as the tap sets do not contain any sizes that are commonly used on guns. At least not for mounting scopes and that like, which are usually finer pitches than the hardware stores stock. So you are pretty much at the mercy of the supplier, or you pick and choose the quality level you are willing to pay for, and buy your taps or sets of three taps on an 'as-need' basis.
My experience has been that guys that cannot keep from breaking a crappy tap, will end up breaking an expensive one too. I have cut, ground, drilled out, and generally extracted, far too many tap chunks, to think otherwise. Cheap carbon steel taps are great for two things. They are sharp as heck when new, and if the guy using them cheaps out and keeps using it when dull, you can soften the broken piece with heat, and drill it or mill it out without having to resort to carbide end mills or dental burrs.
Good quality taps, like any other cutting tool, can be ruined by misuse and overuse. They wear out, and are consumed in use, and it is up to the operator to recognize and accept this as fact. If it's not sharp any more, it does not matter how expensive it was, it's still crap.
Cheers
Trev
I have one of those tap wrenches but don't use it because I have to lower the drill table before I can use it (after drilling) What I use instead is a small pointed piece of shaft that I turn on the lathe and goes in the drill chuck and which centers in the gap at the top of the tap wrench. It prevents the tap and wrench from wandering sideways back and forth and is particularly useful when using small taps in the #4 to #8 screw sizes
cheers mooncoon
