Steel Core Ammunition on our Range

tinman304 said:
Before we hang the shooter here, lets consider the possibility of a novice shooter who was sold steel ammo unknowingly. The range officers should be very vigilant in checking ammo being brought in if accidents are to be prevented.
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SIGNUT said:
Wrong. You pull the trigger, you are responsible. No exceptions.
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Sorry SIGNUT but wrong! Did you know the differences in ammo when you started in this hobby?

A bag of mixed surplus looks the same to every one of us. Can you pick steel core out of a mixed bag just by looking?
Unintentional and accidental is exactly that. I understand it might be exceptionalism at play and they simply didn't care but don't always assume the worst in people. Get off your high horse buddy...everyone deserves the benefit of doubt. Even you once in a while, I'm sure.
 
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calgaryrockstar said:
you should press charges and give them the bill....i just hate stupid people!
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Sure, negotiate a settlement to recoup damages/losses, or take the person to small claims court if you can't come to an agreement.

But pray tell, what "charges" are to be laid?

A person unintentionally damaging property is a civil matter, not a criminal matter.

FF
 
Guys,

We did not start this thread to have it become a witch hunt. We just wanted to show how damaging the wrong ammo can be and is.

Lets all get along here please.

JR
 
Guys,

We did not start this thread to have it become a witch hunt. We just wanted to show how damaging the wrong ammo can be and is.

Lets all get along here please.

JR
 
A select few always spoil it for the rest. Shame to see that...I mean accidents happen but that doesn't look accidental. And people should own up to their actions, would hate to see my own range blatantly damaged so.
 
Yes SIGNUT you are CORRECT.

Firearms, ski and scuba diving has very little room for errors. Mistake tends to be very serious.

Basically you are saying accidental discharge due to carelessness is ok.
Stick any ammo into a firearm is OK, firing a 308 in a 30-06 is fine?

When in doubt ask first. Safety first. Driving and firearms are licensed activity, treat it with respect.
We are NOT talking about taking the wrong leash for waking your poodle in Central park.
Panic said:
Sorry SIGNUT but wrong! Did you know the differences in ammo when you started in this hobby?

A bag of mixed surplus looks the same to every one of us. Can you pick steel core out of a mixed bag just by looking?
Unintentional and accidental is exactly that. I understand it might be exceptionalism at play and they simply didn't care but don't always assume the worst in people. Get off your high horse buddy...everyone deserves the benefit of doubt. Even you once in a while, I'm sure.
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SIGNUT said:
Wrong. You pull the trigger, you are responsible. No exceptions.
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I am sure the first time you ever shot anything you knew absolutely everything about the calibre, projectile and terminal performance of that projectile when compared to another off the shelf product, unfortunately most novices do not know the difference and trust that what they are being sold is safe for use on most ranges.
 
There's no excuse for this type of damage to say nothing of the dangerous situation it creates. Intentional or otherwise, the person(s) who damaged the range should be held responsible. Whatever form that takes whether it be paying for repairs or removal of privileges is up to TSE management and as a member I would fully support it.
 
The problem is not the first or even maybe the second shot. It's all the shots that a wanna be Rambo with his SKS and steel core ammo. Wanting to see how fast he can pull the trigger t0 empmty this bad boy. And of course when they do. No concept on muzzle rise when stupid kicks in. And presto target holder and runners get the brunt. But they do it in the movies!! YES??

Like my Grandpa always used to say YOU CAN"T FIX STUPID.
 
Rental car policy. When u use the rifle bay, leave your credit card behind. When you are done and no damage has been found. You get your CC back
 
I can understand why ranges are not allowing steel core anymore, and it's a shame. I'd have a nice mil-length VZ58 if I could pop of surplus at the range, but there's no range in Edmonton that allows steel core :/
 
My range had to fix their backstop due to steel core being shot indoors. Now the yearly range membership has gone up $45 a person. Urban Tactical in Brantford allows the use of steel core ammo at their indoor facility. You can always go and rent a lane if you want to shoot that stuff
 
I stand by what I said previously.

Buy your own range, do what you want at that point. Respect what others have put into place, they have thier reasons. What you want is irrelevant, there is no vote, no democratic process here.

Respect the rules. If the place gets closed down, it's not just the business that suffers, everyone interested in the sport pays the price. There is enough against us law abiding firearm owners as it is.

Is there anything else that needs to be said?
 
mmcintyre1220 said:
Just a non bias post here as I don't shoot steel core indoors nor do I shoot at your range but :

I think the main issue here is not only the quality of your steel but the method it was cut. First, if that truthfully is ar500 or 550 steel it was 150% cut with a torch which is a big no no with armour plate. Secondly, if that steel was cut with water jet, it is most definitely not ar500 or 550

I have a pile of test plates I was sent to not only test but to try and destroy from a now successful target company (I am not mentioning who) . Through my own testing I have seen this exact same issue happen.... But never the fault of steel core ammo. When I had this happen it was from plates cut with heat vs water jet or low grade armor plate. Shockingly 223/556 ripped more from the edges than 308 did. The only time it's acceptable to cut armour plate with a torch is when your doing an edge that you then plan to weld (with proper sticks or wire) .

The quality armour plates I have that were cut with water jet have been pounded with just about anything you can think of and have absolutely zero damage to them. This includes 50 bmg and 12 gauge slugs. Also copious amounts of steel core surplus ammo
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The thing you are failing to make note of is the fact that high velocity rounds tend to damage steel more, so the fact that 223 marks it up more than 308 isn't a big surprise. Most manufacturers explicitly state do not shoot anything that's over 3000fps at steel. And a slow lead 12ga slug is going to be one of the worst candidates if you are trying to damage a steel plate.

Another thing to consider is range. Being an indoor range, the distance is greatly limited compared to most other places one would shoot. Which means less time for the velocity to drop before striking the target. So unless you were shooting steel core ammo at a steel target at 50yds or less its a hard comparison to make.
 
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