*** CZ 858 Update ***

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Mr Wolverine said:
Mr O'Toole is better informed than most, the issue is that if these markings on the stock and bolt carrier really make her a special edition then the RCMP will argue that she needs a new FRT as she is no longer a CZ 858 tactical -2P and then she is prohibited as outside the enabling regulations.
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Pardon me if I missed reading it earlier, but who determines the "model" as shown in the FRT entry? (i.e, "CZ858 Tactical-2P Spartan Limited Edition Proofed 2007 or later") Was that you, or CZ, or the RCMP, or someone else? Are there any standards as to what constitutes a new "model"?
 
Cbf123 said:
Pardon me if I missed reading it earlier, but who determines the "model" as shown in the FRT entry? (i.e, "CZ858 Tactical-2P Spartan Limited Edition Proofed 2007 or later") Was that you, or CZ, or the RCMP, or someone else? Are there any standards as to what constitutes a new "model"?
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No standards, we advertised in error for 36 hrs as limited edition, the RCMP jumped on that and they make a decision. Interestingly the FRT is not law!
 
ShotgunSlade said:
What puzzles me is that they just granted amnesty to all the past CZ 858 models less than a year ago, and it's like they didn't even bother to look at their own policy/legislation on those to properly classify these 858's. Just baffling
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Putting aside all the silliness with prohibited class firearms. Just trying to look at the case from the point of RCMP lab, and their evil overlord Bob Paulson.

They were extremely unhappy with the Cz858 and SAN rifles affair. Basically importers renamed SG550s as Green and Black rifles and imported them as non-restricted, while they are technically prohibited as variant. Color was a reason for a different classification. Then Cz858 were imported in as semis with original select fire receivers.

So general consensus at RCMP lab was that their "opponents" were playing dirty, then everything was fair. Result is this ridiculous new model based on engraving.

The Beowulf magazines were perceived by them as another "dirty" trick violating the "spirit" of the law, and therefore RCMP went and rewrote the regulation blatantly ignoring the letter of the law.

What is rally sad in this whole thing, is that RCMP firearm program officers somewhere along the way decided that resorting to this school-yard mentality of them-vs-us is somehow benefiting public safety in Canada. While they are supposed to be "defending the law" not "inventing the law".
 
Mr Wolverine said:
No standards, we advertised in error for 36 hrs as limited edition, the RCMP jumped on that and they make a decision. Interestingly the FRT is not law!
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The RCMP don't care if it was 36hrs, stop expecting reason from them. This is why conservatives will always lose to liberals in the big arena. The conservatives bring reason and evidence and the liberals bring power and numbers.

The RCMP are power and have an agenda. They are playing games with you and want you to squirm before they release the rifle. BTW is there a unique FRT for the Scorpio sks15?
 
evolture said:
The RCMP don't care if it was 36hrs, stop expecting reason from them. This is why conservatives will always lose to liberals in the big arena. The conservatives bring reason and evidence and the liberals bring power and numbers.

The RCMP are power and have an agenda. They are playing games with you and want you to squirm before they release the rifle. BTW is there a unique FRT for the Scorpio sks15?
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That is wrong......they need to answer for their wrongdoings
That is wrong as well........this is you opinion and your opinion only

Why is there such a problem in this country and we don't have any backing from anyone.....we got the cssa and ccfr.....why doesn't canada have such a power of the NRA.... some one that can actually stand up against the police force and parliament and GET RESULTS and actually over turn these BS laws we have i am so sick and tired of reading all the updates about this is banned that is banned....these are prohibited now...ok wait...now their not

Why can't the NFA (canadas NRA) from my understanding get involved and crush this ruling? Do they even have any say in Congress?
 
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Thats the problem with the Canadian orgs. They only seem interested in forming an org.,having meetings and collecting our money. Oh yes, lots of letter writing and indignation. I guess it's a good way to create a few jobs. I remember when the NRA tried to start a branch in Canada but that didn't go over well. Im not sure if was really a branch or just someone trying to start a branch. Regardless, our politicians barely give our gun orgs the time of day. They will give more credibility to Wendy's group or any other special interest group that will get them good Press. Our gun orgs are like the boy scouts going over to Afghanistan. I apologize for the misdirection, but it is relevant to the CZ problem and others. The U.S. NRA would have gone ballistic on their ass ( The Government ) for doing this.
 
BlackVoid said:
What is rally sad in this whole thing, is that RCMP firearm program officers somewhere along the way decided that resorting to this school-yard mentality of them-vs-us is somehow benefiting public safety in Canada. While they are supposed to be "defending the law" not "inventing the law".
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To be fair, they aren't officers. They're just employees. I recently found out an acquaintance of mine is a firearms tech. He's one of the most obtuse people I've ever met. When we look at an AR lower and say "How can someone say that easily converts to full auto?" Well, he's the kind of guy that pulls obscure cars out of junkyards. Spends months, and months (in some cases years) getting them to sort of run. Looking at his work tells you that the phrase "That's good enough" was used often throughout the process because as long as he gets to tell people who 1) are mechanics 2) are engineers 3) pay professionals to do the work for them the phrase "It was easy and you said I'd never do it!" He's satisfied that he's accomplished what he set out to do. When I found out last week that he works in the lab, my heart honestly sank because he's the absolute worst problem to have an objective opinion on someone else's statements. Knowing that he works in the lab I'm no longer surprised at the decisions the lab comes up with because he is not a reasonable person.

I'm also fairly certain that he got his job because they wanted him out from his previous position, but couldn't fire him so they shoved him into another section. As far as I'm aware he had little to no previous firearms interest, or experience and doesn't come from a proper mechanical background. The guy who builds those slamfire guns on YouTube would be infinitely more qualified for the job he holds. For most of the time I've known him I admired his tenacity to be able to get things to work even though I questioned his methods, but knowing his personality he's most certainly using his imagined technological prowess to stroke his own ego.
 
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icelink said:
That is wrong......they need to answer for their wrongdoings
That is wrong as well........this is you opinion and your opinion only

Why is there such a problem in this country and we don't have any backing from anyone.....we got the cssa and ccfr.....why doesn't canada have such a power of the NRA.... some one that can actually stand up against the police force and parliament and GET RESULTS and actually over turn these BS laws we have i am so sick and tired of reading all the updates about this is banned that is banned....these are prohibited now...ok wait...now their not

Why can't the NFA (canadas NRA) from my understanding get involved and crush this ruling? Do they even have any say in Congress?
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I agree with the spirit of your post that our gun ownership organizations are not doing enough to defend our rights, however I have to point out that we don't have a congress in Canada, we have a parliament, and secondly, thanks to the appalling Westminster Parliamentary System that's been in place in this country since day one, what we tend to get almost without exception is elected dictatorships who really don't have to listen to anyone and can do pretty much whatever the hell they want for 4 years or so. That's the problem at the core of this issue.

The other issue we have is a politicized, partisan leadership in the RCMP that is rabidly anti-gun despite all evidence and reason showing that they're barking up the wrong tree by relentlessly harassing and going after law abiding gun owners in Canada. These politicos at the top levels of the RCMP and in the lab are not afraid to basically break the law/make up non-existent law/put forward totally nonsensical interpretations of law which would be highly unlikely to ever hold up in court, because they know that they are big and powerful and have lots of money backing them, whereas individual gun owners have little money or clout with which to fight these unfair/unlawful measures.

Take the .22 mag prohibition for Ruger 10/22s for example. They know full well their interpretation is nonsensical BS that would never stand up in court, but they also know that nobody wants to be the test case, so they just ram it through and get away with it.
 
Longarm9 said:
I agree with the spirit of your post that our gun ownership organizations are not doing enough to defend our rights, however I have to point out that we don't have a congress in Canada, we have a parliament, and secondly, thanks to the appalling Westminster Parliamentary System that's been in place in this country since day one, what we tend to get almost without exception is elected dictatorships who really don't have to listen to anyone and can do pretty much whatever the hell they want for 4 years or so. That's the problem at the core of this issue.

The other issue we have is a politicized, partisan leadership in the RCMP that is rabidly anti-gun despite all evidence and reason showing that they're barking up the wrong tree by relentlessly harassing and going after law abiding gun owners in Canada. These politicos at the top levels of the RCMP and in the lab are not afraid to basically break the law/make up non-existent law/put forward totally nonsensical interpretations of law which would be highly unlikely to ever hold up in court, because they know that they are big and powerful and have lots of money backing them, whereas individual gun owners have little money or clout with which to fight these unfair/unlawful measures.

Take the .22 mag prohibition for Ruger 10/22s for example. They know full well their interpretation is nonsensical BS that would never stand up in court, but they also know that nobody wants to be the test case, so they just ram it through and get away with it.
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your description is the definition of tyranny:

a nation under cruel and oppressive government and/or
cruel, unreasonable, or arbitrary use of power or control.
 
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