How accurate do you strive to be?
- Thread starter Cbf123
- Start date
Wow, I'm severely out of the loop!! I just hunt, those last 3 seconds never involve off the hair and here in my part of BC that is all the time you have usually..... 2" high at a 100 and know your rifle well! Last Bull was a beauty of a brawler with his harem at 280 yards, measured after the fact, but with zero issue..... Start to think about it and all is lost IMHO without taking reckless pot shots and crap.....
Dirk
Dirk
A .300 RUM with a slightly larger rim. Only it came first.
It depends on how close the ballistic curve matches up to your specific ammunition. They will probabaly list something like 20 different profiles and you pick the one that most closely matches your drop data. For one of my rifles it is dead on to the tenth of a mil out to 550m. After that it deviates dramatically and i have to go to my drop tables/ballistic program.
The leica 1600 manuals are online so you could see if any of the profiles match close to your particular setup provided you know how much drop you have at 300 and 500
- Location
- Saskatchewan
I sight most of my big game hunting rifles 3" high at 100 yards, which puts them on at about 250, and a few inches low at 300. I choose not to shoot at unwounded animals any farther than that. I have almost never found that my self imposed range limit actually reduced my hunting enjoyment. I get more enjoyment and have considerable success by sneaking closer, not shooting farther. I do not carry a range finder either. But I do pace the distance after shots taken, for education after the fact. I agree that most people can't accurately estimate range after a couple hundred yards. My farthest hit that I can recall was on a wounded African Eland at about 450 yards. Holdover works just fine for me in those rare situations.
.25-06 through a Husqvarna 1900 action 24" barrel...
shoot the mix of premium brands (if like I you do not reload)
select the brand which appears to shoot better than the others
buy a case of said ammo (ten boxes min) to assure continuity
do not believe any ballistics on paper on any cartridge or of any barrel make, model or length
you must shoot, shoot, shoot
I dial in to mark 2.5" high at 200 yards so that is about 1" high at 100 yards etc...etc...
have made head neck shots at 400 yards which have made seasoned guides jaws drop
oh....and invest in an above average scope to accomplish above
shoot the mix of premium brands (if like I you do not reload)
select the brand which appears to shoot better than the others
buy a case of said ammo (ten boxes min) to assure continuity
do not believe any ballistics on paper on any cartridge or of any barrel make, model or length
you must shoot, shoot, shoot
I dial in to mark 2.5" high at 200 yards so that is about 1" high at 100 yards etc...etc...
have made head neck shots at 400 yards which have made seasoned guides jaws drop
oh....and invest in an above average scope to accomplish above
Actually DL, I turned the rims down to fit the bolt face at first.......it was on a Sako L61R, then I was able to get more than the initial 20 cases so I opened up the bolt face a hair to work with the standard 404 rim. Of course it still worked just fine with the .532" cases as well.
M12shooter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- East St. Paul, mb
Good thread 1 MOA more than enough accuracy for most big game hunting situations but it still drives me nuts if my hand rolled ammo won't do that or better. Varmint rifles are in a league of they're own though...
cdn1canhunt
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- southwestern ontario
Agreed... but "Maximum Point Blank Range" Is about how far you can shoot while still holding on the target without having to dial turrets and or compensate for the bullets trajectory without holding over or under targets.
Not meaning to imply anything.
What I like is when the shooter sights in 3 inches high because he knows darn well that plus or minus 3" won't matter. He usually does that after he spent all summer trying to make it shoot into 1/2" because apparently that 1/2" is holding the universe together.
cdn1canhunt
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- southwestern ontario
Ain't that the truth!
The theory for MPBR is a dead on hold from muzzle to the maximum point blank yardage for your particular rig... but you can cater MPBR by dictating a smaller or larger kill zone to better tailor MPBR to your platform/cartridge or quarry or conditions... I prefer a 6" KZ on big game rifles and a 4" KZ on predator rigs... I tend to not take extreme distance shots, well beyond the MPBR. In addition you can "assist" accuracy by using moderate hold over or under based on your "known" (range tested) trajectory and "known" distance to target to center POI rather than allow your POI to float to the periphery of the KZ at minimum and maximum distances, by using a dead on hold.
Of course the beauty of zeroing for MPBR, is if range is unknown or the action is fast, you can hold dead on and as long as you do your part you should get the bullet through vital tissue... human error (poor or affected shooting) is a good reason to input a smaller KZ than the standard 10" zone... it gives you a little more margin for error.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Aim small - miss small. The +/- 3" means you won't need to laser the range out to 325 or so, depending on your outfit, but at longer ranges, half minute accuracy is beneficial. At 600 yards for example, half minute accuracy provides similar dispersion on the target as sighting in 3" high @100 does from the point of aim on a 200 yard target. Short range problems occur when we fail to allow for the sight offset.
A sight plane further from the bore will actually increase MPBR slightly... but on a 5 yard kill shot you may blow the nose off your buck if you fail to account for it. Most 40mm objective low mounted scopes will be in the vacinity of 1.5" above the bore.... I use 1.5" as the standard setting... it is all academic until you get to the range anyway... a lot of other variables come into play.
My point (If I even have a point
) is that those that obsess about the mechanical precision of their rigs should probably be using turrets so they aren't throwing away inches and fighting for fractions at the same time, and those that are happy staying inside their MPBR just might be over estimating how important accuracy is. Its hard to screw up a typical bolt action up so bad that it wouldn't made a fully functional 300 yard big game rifle.I'm just as guilty as the next guy.
My accuracy criteria.......which will likely get me tried for heresy on this forum......is such that I'd like to see several 4 shot groups from my chosen rifle and load to fall within 1" at 100 mtrs.......if they happen to go into 1/2" or 3/4" then I'm even happier, however if they happen to consistently fall into 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" I'll still likely go hunting with this rifle and still be confident of my shots out to 400+ mtrs. Group shape actually tells me more than group size, and first shot consistency, I deem more important than both.........I have a 280 (an old push feed Mod 70 Ftrwt in a McMillan glass stock) that will consistently put 160 Parts into the same hole with the first shot from a cold barrel, but shoots about 1 1/4" groups, I have no qualms hunting with this rifle.
I have a decent scope with mildot reticle and mil turrets. I zero for 200 meters and practice, alot. I strive to be as accurate as my rifle. The MPBR method is probably faster but if my 200 zero won't do the job then the animal is far enough away that I have the extra seconds to calculate elevation. Part of its a pride thing and the other part is just how i approach hunting and shooting in general.
I have no doubt that many ethical hunters have harvested plenty of tasty meat using MPBR.
I have no doubt that many ethical hunters have harvested plenty of tasty meat using MPBR.
Centre of mass, moving or otherwise. 25 yards into a dinner plate with a pistol, 100 yards with a rifle, open sights. Keep it realistic. I can certainly understand, however, people who strive to be super-duper, professional or otherwise. It would be fun to chase those results.
Cannon
Cannon
Well of course that 1/2 inch is holding the world of shooting together! Mind you, in all the shooting I have seen in my life I have never seen anyone who could shoot to half inch grouping under hunting conditions. But now, anyone with a computer can do it on their key board.
There was a time in my development as a shooter when my approach was all about trying to wring every last bit of accuracy out of any given setup. I had 1/4MOA externally adjustable turrets on all my hunting rigs, and put alot of effort into practicing at between 200 to 800 yards from the prone position with a laser rangefinder. Each season I would purposely set out to take at least one of my animals at long range - what I would characterize as past 300 meters. If I could not get a bolt gun to shoot into 3/8 inch at 100 I would sell it.
As time went on, I was surprised to discover that this approach was becoming more and more cumbersome, and was detracting from what it is that actually gives me enjoyment in the realm of my shooting and hunting endeavours:
The list could be endless.
My approach now is much different - I practice and hunt with a plain-jane rig within the confines of the trajectory of whatever cartridge I'm using. In practice, my standard measure of success is whether or not I can repeatedly hit an 8 inch diameter circle from whatever position and at whatever range I'm shooting at. I regularly practice all positions - standing/sitting/kneeling/prone - and my rifle is zeroed such that my maximum trajectory over my line of sight is no greater than 4 inches. The result? I can be happy with a 2MOA gun, as when I'm practicing my www.rifleman.ca challenge and I miss one of the 2 standing shots it's not because my rifle won't hold 1/2MOA.
I've also changed my stalking/hunting practices. Whereas before I was content to sit for hours along the top of a ridge making range measurements galore to pass the time, now I walk around a lot more. I see tonnes more game, having a lot more "close encounters" in the woods that significantly enhance the experience. Despite having made many long range shots that I was for-sure proud of back then, I struggle to remember them. I have much more powerful memories of snorting/stomping deer I've danced with in the woods after bumping them by accident. Many of them even got away unscathed, and I still remember the experience fondly!
Now purposely seeking out these types of situations over the long-range days of my past, I have a lighter rifle to lug around, I log many more miles in my boots, I only have to think about range in terms of "too far?", and I think I've accumulated a much more well-rounded set of skills.
I realize and accept there are some personalities that will always me more suited to the precision and technical attention-to-detail required be a successful/ethical long range hunter. I once thought this was me, but was surprised to learn that a simpler/more wholistic approach enhanced my enjoyment of shooting/hunting as much as it did.
For what it's worth, that's been my experience.
Cheers,
Brobee
As time went on, I was surprised to discover that this approach was becoming more and more cumbersome, and was detracting from what it is that actually gives me enjoyment in the realm of my shooting and hunting endeavours:
- Have to remember to get extra batteries for the range finder? Stress goes up just a bit.
- Have doubt about whether I remembered to set elevation turrets back to zero after last outing? Stress goes up a bit.
- Just a bit of grass in the way for good prone setup and elk have arrived? Stress goes up a bit.
- Have to carry bipods or backpacks around for rests? Stress goes up a bit.
- Wonder if that last flier was me or the gun? Stress goes up a bit.
- Fire more than three rounds in a row and wonder if I am screwing up the bore of my 1/4 inch rig? Stress goes up a bit.
- Forgot the wind meter today? Stress goes up a bit.
The list could be endless.
My approach now is much different - I practice and hunt with a plain-jane rig within the confines of the trajectory of whatever cartridge I'm using. In practice, my standard measure of success is whether or not I can repeatedly hit an 8 inch diameter circle from whatever position and at whatever range I'm shooting at. I regularly practice all positions - standing/sitting/kneeling/prone - and my rifle is zeroed such that my maximum trajectory over my line of sight is no greater than 4 inches. The result? I can be happy with a 2MOA gun, as when I'm practicing my www.rifleman.ca challenge and I miss one of the 2 standing shots it's not because my rifle won't hold 1/2MOA.
I've also changed my stalking/hunting practices. Whereas before I was content to sit for hours along the top of a ridge making range measurements galore to pass the time, now I walk around a lot more. I see tonnes more game, having a lot more "close encounters" in the woods that significantly enhance the experience. Despite having made many long range shots that I was for-sure proud of back then, I struggle to remember them. I have much more powerful memories of snorting/stomping deer I've danced with in the woods after bumping them by accident. Many of them even got away unscathed, and I still remember the experience fondly!
Now purposely seeking out these types of situations over the long-range days of my past, I have a lighter rifle to lug around, I log many more miles in my boots, I only have to think about range in terms of "too far?", and I think I've accumulated a much more well-rounded set of skills.
I realize and accept there are some personalities that will always me more suited to the precision and technical attention-to-detail required be a successful/ethical long range hunter. I once thought this was me, but was surprised to learn that a simpler/more wholistic approach enhanced my enjoyment of shooting/hunting as much as it did.
For what it's worth, that's been my experience.
Cheers,
Brobee
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